Oral History Interview: Thelma Genevieve Parish

Thelma Genevieve Parish, a.k.a. Sister Parish, was born in 1918. She descended from prominent families in the history of Hawai‘i, and shared generational ties to the ‘ili of Pu‘uloa in Honouliuli Ahupua‘a. She was educated as an anthropologist, and became a Catholic nun serving for 50 years as a teacher and school administrator with the Order of Sacred Hearts. Sister Parish was a lifelong student of history and until her passing in 2004, she was working on a manuscript of Hawaiian history. Unfortunately her work has been left incomplete.

Sister Parish’s knowledge of the Pu‘uloa-Honouliuli lands and larger District of ‘Ewa was rooted in her own family’s ties to the land, and she was recognized as an important resource for historical information on ‘Ewa. Her experiences and genealogy also connected with other places around O‘ahu, and the interview transcript below includes important information pertaining to the sacred lands of windward O‘ahu. One of the memories shared speaks of the Pohukaina cave complex, which in some accounts has an entrance near the area of the Waipahū spring.

Arrangements for the 1997 interview were facilitated with the assistance of Sister Parish’s lifelong friend, Kupuna Arline Eaton and was originally conducted as a part of the preservation planning process for the Haseko cultural preserves along the Honouliuli shoreline. Release was granted on August 29, 1997, though readers are asked not to cite block quotes from this interview for any other purposes.

A summary of the topics discussed with Sister Parish are below:

•  The land has undergone traumatic changes.  With the passing of the sugar plantations, development has been allowed to occur without reason.
•  The Dowsett/Parish family home and ranching complex was based out of Kūpaka, near the Pu‘uloa coastline. The area was famed for many types of limu. Overharvesting and environmental change has caused much of the limu to disappear.
•  Ka‘ahupāhau was known as the shark goddess of Pu‘uloa. People never feared sharks.
•  It is important to speak traditional place names and to care for the history of the land. Understanding the history helps us to understand why and how places are sacred. There is a great deal of native lore from the ‘Ewa District. Sister discussed the name Waipahū as an example of how names are changed, and history lost.
•  Shares her mana‘o on the significance of kapu (sacredness); management of resources as a way of traditional life; and the development of kuleana (responsibilities) for the land and resources in relationship to the pono (rights) which are being claimed in modern times.
•  Pu‘uloa was famous for the ‘anae holo (traveling mullet), and the health of the Pu‘uloa fishery enriched the fisheries all around O‘ahu.
•  Recalled that there are traditions of a class of Hawaiians known as the “dog people.” These people resided in the caves and caverns of the coral flatlands of Honouliuli.
•  Caves, caverns, and skylights on the coral plains were used traditionally (though Sister Parish did not have personal knowledge of burial sites in the region); in some traditions, the ‘ulu was first planted on O‘ahu in the open skylights of the Honouliuli Plains.

Interviewee  Thelma Genevieve Parish (TGP), with Arline Wainaha Pu‘ulei Brede-Eaton (AE)
Interviewer  Kepā Maly (KM)
Date and time  May 2, 1997, 1:10 p.m.

KM: Aloha and mahalo.

TGP:  Aloha nō!

KM: Please, if you would share your full name, date of birth, and then if you would keep telling your story then.

TGP: I’m Thelma Genevieve Parish and I was born on May the 26th, 1918. So I’m somewhat  antiquated  [chuckles].

KM:  Blessed.

TGP: And I have known and taken a very vivid interest in my family, on both my father’s side, which was the Dowsett side. And my mother’s side which comes from the other side of the island in Waiāhole-Hakipu‘u. So my grandmother, Mary Kaohinani Dowsett-Parish built one of the first homes in Kaimukī, when it was a very new subdivision in Honolulu. And as a member of the Dowsett family, she had inherited acreage down here in the area that we now call ‘Ewa Beach. We never referred to the area as ‘Ewa Beach in my younger days. It was always Kūpaka [as pronounced].

KM:  Kūpaka, and you heard that pronunciation?

TGP: Yes, Kūpaka. And whenever we children, on Friday afternoons, we’d get home from school, we had our little duffel bags all packed because we were going to go to Kūpaka, to spend the weekend. Now Kūpaka was part of the ahupua‘a of Pu‘uloa. And my great grandfather owned, and I have to use that word in quotation marks because it’s refuted, or questioned as to the direct ownership. But he did, in quotes, own from the entrance to Pearl Harbor all the way to approximately, Campbell High School, [where it is located] today.

And he used that area which was quite barren, he used that area primarily as his fattening paddocks. Because he was into ranching and he had a ranch at ‘Ulupalakua, on Maui, which he had acquired from the Makee family. And also, a ranch at Mikilua, which is below Lualualei. A part of the ahupua‘a of Lualualei, on the other side of the Wai‘anae mountain range, as it comes down to hit the sea on the southern coast. Then he also had a ranch in Leilehua. So these ranches were producing cattle and there were times when he would ship from Maui and would have to fatten the cattle before they could be slaughtered.

KM: Do you remember what the grazing material was then, down here, that made a good fattening ground?

TGP: I guess the kiawe beans.

KM:  So just the kiawe beans?

TGP: Kiawe beans and the haole koa.

KM:  Hmm.  Was that the predominant growth throughout the Kūpaka-Pu‘uloa, even into here, the Honouliuli area?

TGP:  Yes. Oh yes. It was primarily kiawe, the algarroba, and pā-nini, the klu [or kolū] bushes and the cactus, the haole koa, lots of it.

KM:  This is from your memories as a child, or even pre…?

TGP: No, my memories as a child and it must have been a little more dense probably, previous to my knowing Kūpaka. However, the pasturage seems unlikely in our terms today, because it’s not meadow-like, but was just virgin country and the pipi, the cattle were turned loose. And then there were divisions so that you had one paddock following another paddock, following another paddock. So when we left Honouliuli, we were coming through the tail end of the cane lands, then we’d come to a gate, we’d have to stop and get out. My father was very persnickety about his Model T-Ford, so it wasn’t to be scratched [chuckles], and so we had to break or hack-hack at the branches of the kiawe trees that had grown over the road after our last visit. And we’d come down, and I’d have to jump out of the car again, and open the next gate, wait until he’d gone through and close that gate. I think we had to do that three or four times.

KM: Hmm. So from Honouliuli boundary, with Pu‘uloa, coming in?

TGP:  Yes.

KM:  And was your roadway…?

TGP:  Coral, one lane [chuckles].

KM:  Uh-hmm. Were the gates, was it wire, uwea fencing? Or was it pā pōhaku [stone walls], some, do you remember?

TGP: Mostly wire fencing. Primarily the barbed wire. Not the fancy squared off kinds of fencing, barbed wire. And strung from one kiawe wood post to the next kiawe wood post, to the next, and on down. And the gates were swung from larger posts, embedded in the coral. And the gate swung only in one direction, and you had to park and then drive through, wait and then close the gate, and then go on to the next gate. My grandmother’s property was always… sort of located by the height of the windmill. She had the only windmill in the area and it was a landmark.

KM: You know, on the old map that we were looking at earlier?

TGP: Hmm.

KM: Alexander’s 1873 map, Register Map number 618, we see [opening the map]… See the watering hole here? [pointing to sites identified on the map] In fact, see, this says “stone wall” coming in by the salt works?

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM:  Was Kūpaka the area of your houses, and was it on the shore also, or…?

TGP:  Kūpaka is now, as I knew it then, is now Parish Drive.

KM: Ahh, okay, that’s good to know.

TGP:  And so we referred to that whole area… the area we went through, before reaching my grandmother’s country home, was that of Mitsuyasu.

AE: Yes, that’s right.

TGP: We had a charcoal area.

KM:  Oh kiawe charcoal.

TGP: A charcoal burning establishment.

AE:  What year did they come down here?

TGP: Mitsuyasu must have been here before 1925. I know, I found my grandmother’s records, and she built her home in ’25.

AE:  So they had to come around that time.

TGP:  And they must have been… Mitsuyasu could have been here before that.

KM: So your house area… [pointing to the locations on the map] if the salt works were up here, and this is a walled enclosure, and there are some small houses indicated here.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM:  But your grandmother’s place was down, you think, on this end?

TGP:  Yes.

KM: [marking location on map] Towards the end of the stone wall here?

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM:  Ahh. And Mitsuyasu was doing the kiln…

TGP:  Charcoal.

KM: Yes. Was down in Pu‘uloa also. As a lease from your grandmother, do you think?

TGP: No… well, he could have had a lease, from what we called then, “The Dowsett Company.” Because the Dowsett Company, consisted of the heirs of my great grandfather, James Isaac Dowsett. His businesses were incorporated into what we knew as the Dowsett Company. Now, the Dowsett Company then, had control of the area from Fort Weaver, which was given to the United States, from the lands that my grandmother and grandfather owned. So it was [chuckles]… it was taken back. My guess is that my [great] grandfather acquired these lands primarily because the Ali‘i, or the Kingdom needed money, he would advance money, or give them what they needed as they approached him and then he was repaid in land. And so we don’t know the exactness of the titles, the land titles for the areas that we considered to have been his.

KM: Uh-hmm. As we look at the Pu‘uloa area here, you see the ahupua‘a boundary line that comes up, the fishponds, fisheries, the salt works, and if we come out towards One‘ula, do you have recollections of some of the resources? Or were there families out here and things as well?

TGP: It was… my guess is, that there were few… it was very, very unpopulated. Not at all populated. And I often wondered where the Pu‘uloa salt works were. My guess was, as I was growing up and heard about them, that they were to the south of Fort Weaver. But I’d been told recently that there were more, up off the West Loch.

KM: That’s correct, yes.

TGP: And I do remember my family referring to West Loch as being grandpa’s as well. Not so much the water part, but the lands across from West Loch. So that would bring us right directly to One‘ula and a little bit further than Campbell High School.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Yes. Was anyone still… what did you hear about the salt works, and was anyone still making salt when you were a child, anywhere out here?

TGP: That, I wouldn’t know. I’ve accumulated a good deal of additional knowledge through my own research, and so now, it’s hard for me to delineate and pinpoint what I knew as a child, and what I learned as an adult through research.

KM: Uh-hmm. [tape off, someone knocked on door; tape back on] We’re back on, you’d mentioned that you have researched a great deal, so this is clear in our interview. You of course, because of your love of and interest in the land, as a Hawaiian and as a… Well, you’ve traveled quite a bit as well. In your understanding, was the salt works, did it play an important part in the history of this land?

TGP: Yes it did. In fact the salt works were the focal point of the ownership, of my great grandfather’s ownership. E. B. Scott, in his Saga of the Sandwich Islands mentions it, and he’s quoting from someone else, that the salt works were a very prominent part of the economy and the early industrialization enterprises.

KM: Sure, so was the salt used for hides and the salting and preparation of meats and things?

TGP: My great-grandfather commercialized in salt, and sold it. According to research, a good deal of the salt that was produced on O‘ahu was sold to the fishing fleets that would come from Alaska and take it back to Alaska for the salting of the salmon.

KM: Ahh, interesting. When we were looking at this map a little earlier, it was also interesting to note that there was, what looks to be [marking on map], almost to be like a little kahe or weir or something that came in off of Pu‘uloa. Had you heard at all, about how water was gathered into the salt ponds? Did they dig holes and make…?

TGP: No, this part I have never been able to research in depth, simply because we haven’t had access to maps of this vintage. But this map seems to indicate, and I would say, in common sense, it would tell us that they had to bring the salt water in from the lower end, or away from the entrance to Pearl Harbor simply because the outer shoreline is too high. And they wouldn’t have been able to flood the salt ponds from the south shore. But, bringing it in from the east shoreline, and into the salt pans, seems much more sensible.

KM: [copies of Register Map 618, were given to kūpuna Thelma and Arline] Looking at the map, it was interesting to see that it looks like there was this little channel or estuary like that fed into the area of the salt works.

TGP:  Uh-hmm. I don’t believe that anything remains today of the salt works.

KM:   Hmm, yes, even many these fishponds along here have been destroyed. May I ask, if you’ve heard, because one of the things that I’ll send to you, that I think you’ll be very interested in… As I was going through the original Māhele texts, I found… and see the problem is, because the kuleana weren’t awarded, they weren’t recorded in the final Indices, and that why people don’t think that any land was claimed in Pu‘uloa. But I found a list of about 12 or 15 individuals who in the Native Register of claims, claimed ‘āina along this area of Pu‘uloa. But by the time the Native Testimonies for awards came up, all of these individuals relinquished their claims here and moved in, particularly, a lot of them moved into the Waikele-Waipi‘o area, you know Loko ‘Eo.

TGP:  Ahh the Waipi‘o area.

KM: Which I thought, was really interesting. Did you hear of any early families living anywhere out here at all, as a child?

TGP: Never. The only other habitation, if I can call it as such, was my cousin’s country home, and she was the daughter of Samuel Dowsett. And Sam Dowsett had an old country home down in this area. And then beyond to the west of my grandmother’s holdings was where the holdings of my grand uncle Alika, that’s Alexander Cartwright Dowsett. And his old home was visible from the beach area outside my grandmother’s home. So those were the only two homes I know of, other than Mitsuyasu who was further beyond.

KM: Uh-hmm. So coming out towards One‘ula, like that, or even to Kualaka‘i, did you hear…?

TGP: No, not that far. We weren’t, no. I doubt… even now, in picking up some of the research, nothing seems to resemble anything that I had known as a child. It’s all… well, this was all just wild country, all along the shoreline.

KM: Yes. Were there cattle then, all throughout your Pu‘uloa lands, as you’d said, because they were using it as…?

KM: How about into the One‘ula, or below the sugar fields and out towards even Lae Loa (Barber’s Point), was someone running cattle out there also, that you recall?

TGP: I would say that it was a good possibility; however, you can’t overstock the area. The area hadn’t much to offer in the first place.

KM: Yes.

TGP: And so they’d probably move the cattle, pipi, for the pasturage, and keep rotating. But, maybe the present names, like we have the name Pā Pipi Road [cattle corral], which seems to indicate that that was used for pipi.

KM: Yes.

TGP: But it’s really hard to determine just… well, it’s hard for me to determine how much of this area was being utilized, and where. I asked Arline frequently what she remembers of her father and grandfather’s experiences and she as a little girl coming down to what we knew of as Kūpaka, every weekend.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Yes.

AE: But, you know, the cattle were around in this area too [pointing to the One‘ula area of the map], but like you said, I’m just assuming that your grandfather owned that property because Papa had to bring the cattle down in this area.

KM: Hmm, even into Honouliuli.

TGP:  Probably round ‘um up and move them…

AE: Yes, move them, every weekend, he’d move them to different places.

TGP: Let the pasture come back.

KM: Was there a relationship between Dowsett and Campbell at all, that you ever heard of? Honouliuli was Campbell, eh?

TGP:  Part of Campbell’s.

AE:  Part.

KM: And I imagine, that if your grandpa, or father them, on the Dowsett side, were going to use the land, they may have come to some agreement?

TGP: Well, maybe it was just like the old west, you just used what was not blocked off [chuckles].

KM: Hmm. But, it’s obvious, in your description of coming in here, going through three or four gates…

TGP:  Yes.

KM: That there were obvious pā ‘uwea, the wire fences or kinds of things like that.

TGP:  Uh-hmm, yes.

AE:  Yes.

TGP:  And there was a definite scheduling.

KM: Hmm, rotating eh?

TGP:  Rotating and scheduling. I don’t know where grandpa Dowsett’s slaughterhouse was, the old Hawaii Meat Company.

AE: Yeah, he had a slaughterhouse, the Hawaii Meat Company, that was part of his.

TGP: Wasn’t that up in… [thinking]?

AE:  Up near Middle Street. You know where the bus depot is?

TGP: That’s a continuation of Pu‘uloa. Because, they weren’t able to haul these pipi anywhere, they had to drive them. So the slaughterhouse had to be at a convenient distance.

KM:  Yes. As a child, do you remember, were there good areas for limu, like līpoa or, or fish like ‘ō‘io…

TGP:  Oh! ‘Ewa, Kūpaka was noted for its limu. The limu banks would pile up as high as three feet along the shoreline.

KM: Along the area fronting here [pointing to the ocean shore fronting Kūpaka]. So there is a papa, a reef flats or something?

AE:  Oh yes.

TGP:  Yes, but it’s not visible.

KM:  Oh submerged?

TGP:  Yes, in fact, you’d think there was no reef area because there is no line of breakers. But the limu was extremely plentiful [said with emphasis].

KM: So there was good limu; all kinds, or a particular variety?

TGP: All kinds.

AE:  Yes.

TGP:  And the manauea was particularly important.

KM:  So manauea. Was there wāwae‘iole?

AE:  Yes.

TGP:  Yes.

KM: Līpoa?

TGP:  Plenty.

KM: Kohu?

AE: Yes, limu kohu.

TGP:  Yes.

AE:  There’s still plenty when you go to Barber’s Point, because nobody goes in. They don’t have access. I just got some limu kohu, Mary went to make some.

KM:  So was that a popular occurrence, friends and family might come down to gather limu or fish when you were young children?

TGP:  Occasionally, it was almost untouched, as we knew it.

KM: And you said it was a much as three feet thick?

TGP: Three feet above the sand level.

AE:  Yes.

TGP: And beautiful white sand beaches in the Kūpaka area, what we would call Parish Drive now. That was all beautiful white sand beach. And then, noted for its limu and noted for its cat’s eyes, those little shells, the little door that flaps, opens up.

KM:  Yes, on the cone-type shell.

AE: Sister, all of that Hailipō and all of that, that was all Dowsett land eh?

TGP:  Yes.

KM:  Hailipō?

TGP:  Hailipō.

AE: Because they had the sign out there when they first opened up the subdivision.

TGP: Well, also too, my grandmother was able to acquire a good deal more property than her original acreage in Kūpaka. So the area now flanking Pā Pipi Road, at the end of Pā Pipi Road, was all hers.

KM: The makai end?

TGP:  All her development. Ching was the developer in that area, and it was all in leasehold.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

TGP:  So that was an additional area that my grandmother had.

KM:  Towards One‘ula?

TGP:  Towards One‘ula, what we call Hau Bush now. Before you get into Hau Bush, at the cul-de-sac, at the end of Pūpū Road. But she had that additional area.

KM:  Did you folks, aside from gathering limu, and perhaps some fishing out here, did you remember traveling down along the coast into the One‘ula area?

TGP: Not that far. It would be… see, the white sand beach ends, maybe two blocks, I’m estimating, two blocks beyond my grandmother’s place. And then, there was a coral shelf.

KM: Yes.

TGP:  And the coral begins, and that coral shelf runs all the way down to One‘ula.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

TGP: Before you begin to see some sandy beach areas again. And it was densely thick with wild [chuckles] vegetation, you just couldn’t go through it. The cattle could, but it wasn’t a place that we would be allowed to play. It was far too far away. And there was no purpose in anyone going down there. It was easier to go by boat, if we were going to go down the shoreline.

KM: Uh-hmm. Were there good fishing areas out here?

TGP: Lobsters. We had a Filipino yard man who would come periodically to clean up and all, and over the weekends, he would put on his tiny little goggles [gesturing single lenses over each eye], right up against his eyes, and his cotton gloves.

Then he’d go off with his big gunny sack and by the time he got back, the gunny sack was full of lobsters. All he had to do was reach into the lobster holes and pick them up. They were so plentiful.

AE: Yeah.

TGP: Lots and lots of fish and lots of lobsters. And I don’t remember any sharks in the area. There was no reason for them to come in, there wasn’t any pollution of any sort that would attract them.

KM: So, you’ve mentioned sharks, and of course, Pu‘uloa is famed, “Alahula Pu‘uloa, he ala hele na Ka‘ahupāhau” [The trails of Pu‘uloa are those traveled by Ka‘ahupāhau]

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: The shark goddess.

AE:  Yes.

KM: Were there still stories at all being told?

TGP: Well yes, but that was into the Pearl Harbor area. I don’t know of sharks being a threat when we went swimming, and we were always on the beach, and into the water.

AE: Yeah. But like sister said, the growth is all dense in this area. Mekia, Major Kealaka‘i’s boy, he and I would come walk up, you know where it’s all rocky?

KM: ‘Ae.

TGP:  Uh-hmm, and you’d walk the shoreline.

AE:  Yes the trails over here [pointing to the map in the area of One‘ula-Kualaka‘i].

TGP:  That’s right you used the pipi trails to come up.

KM: So Major Kealaka‘i’s mo‘opuna?

AE: His son, we’d play together.

KM: His name was?

AE:  Mekia was his name. He’s passed away already.

KM:  Were they still talking… Now your father’s name was?

TGP: My father’s name was James Arthur Parish, and he was the son of Mary Kaohinani Dowsett-Parish, and her husband, Leonard Arthur Charles Parish. And my grandfather Leonard came from Wales in England. He came out as a young man and wooed my grandmother I suppose [chuckles].

KM: Now, you’d mentioned that some of your ‘ohana, was on this side, the Ragsdales of Hilo vicinity?

TGP: Yes, this was Annie Green Ragsdale was the wife of James Isaac Dowsett. And James Isaac Dowsett was the first Caucasian child born in Honolulu, that was of non-missionary stock. And his father and mother… his father was Captain Samuel Dowsett, and his mother was Mary Bishop Dowsett. And Captain Samuel Dowsett had resigned his commission in the British Navy and had gone to Australia and married Mary Bishop. He bought a boat and was leaving Australia, and his first child was born on Melville Island. So she was called Deborah Melville Dowsett, and that was the first of grandpa Dowsett’s generation. And then they came up here, intending to go on to the northwest United States, but instead, they came into Honolulu and never left. And so my grandpa Dowsett was born then, in Honolulu.

KM: Ohh. And your mother’s name?

TGP: My mother’s name was Libby Peck. She was from the other side of the island of O‘ahu, Windward O‘ahu. She was Libby Peck-Parish. She married the oldest boy of Mary Kaohinani Dowsett-Parish, my father, who was James Arthur Parish. My mother hailed from the windward side, where she was hānai to the kahu, the kahuna nui who was in charge of all the sacred lands from Lae-o-ka-‘oi‘o in Kualoa, all the way along through to Waikāne, Waikāne-Waiāhole.

KM:  So this hānai papa, grandfather…

TGP: Was the kahuna nui of that whole area. And that area has a good deal of history to it, a great deal of history.

KM: Hmm. May I ask, because you’d mentioned that mama’s, I guess maiden name was Peck?

TGP:  [smiling]

KM: What was the Hawaiian line that comes into here?

TGP: Mother’s mother was Hattie Mi‘i-Peck. And Mi‘i was the family name of my grandmother’s people, from Hakipu‘u. And that would be my grandmother’s parents, they passed away when the children were quite young, so they were divided up among other members of the family and were raised by others. And so my grandmother, my mother’s mother was hānai, or raised by Ka-uku Kalā. And Ka-uku Kalā was the kahuna nui of the sacred lands [in the period ranging from around 1860 to 1890]. And his wife was Ka‘akau-a-lani, and she was very, very petite. But, they lived in Waikāne, and raised my mother as a god-send so to speak. Simply because it was “a la mode” at that time to have a hapa haole child, a hapa haole mo‘opuna. And Ka-uku Kalā wanted, by all means to have a hapa haole hānai [chuckles].

KM: [laughs] “A la mode.”

AE: Cute yeah.

TGP: [chuckles] And so my grandmother, obligingly had an affair with this haole who was in love with her, but with whom she wanted nothing to do, and so to satisfy the hānai parents, she had an affair with this haole from Great Britain, and I, to this day, don’t know his name. My mother was never able to find out, but he was a British businessman who came in and out of the islands, and somewhat kept tabs of mom as she was growing up, but never approached her, never spoke to her. So We don’t really know who my mother’s father was. But then after venturing with the second love of her life, who was my grandmother’s He‘eia boyfriend, who was pure Hawaiian, she had another son by him, who became, my mother’s half-brother. And then the third person she married, married, question mark, was Solomon Peck. And Solomon Peck was the youngest brother of the three Peck brothers, who had come from Germany and settled here. There was Uncle Eli Peck, and then my grandfather who was Solomon, and uncle [thinking], oh, we always referred to him as the Hilo uncle. He was manager of the bank, must have been Bishop Bank in Hilo. So those were the three Peck brothers.

KM: It’s so interesting. I’m sure you must have been hearing stories, like the value of fisheries, or relationships of land, like, as mama was hānai to Ka-uku Kalā [pauses]. These histories are so important, and that we remember land use and relationships…

TGP: Ka-uku Kalā was very fond of mama, extremely fond of mama, she was his punahele. And he wanted to expose her to everything she know about her culture, without really teaching her in any formal manner, the intricacies of the kahuna line, the priesthood. And so he exposed her to all that she be aware of without really informing her. And we found out years later that he bestowed upon her the priesthood. We weren’t ever sure of that, in fact, we hardly ever thought of it until we met her friend on the Big Island, who assured us that mama had received, had had this bestowed, the priesthood upon her. But she was never educated in the priesthood, temple trained or anything like that.

KM: ‘Ae. What was the sense, even here, and this is appropriate, coming back to Pu‘uloa, the relationship to the land, often the priesthood was associated with caring for, and calling upon the abundance, the growth, the proper rains so that the crops would grow. To call so that the abundance of the ocean, the limu or the fish, would come back. Was there a sense of…?

TGP:  Caring, yes.

KM: In fact today, there is so much talk about “native rights,” and…

TGP: Yes, but they are caring things, in my estimation, a little too far. Because the maka‘āinana were never in possession of any “rights.” They kept within, or had to keep within their areas and if they were allowed to go into the sacred lands or into the oceans and all, it was only with permission. They knew their areas. They kept within their areas. And they didn’t, in my estimation, gather from here, there, and everywhere. They didn’t take liberties. I don’t think that their mode of life necessitated their going out of, or beyond their ahupua‘a, where they were born.

KM: ‘Ae. That makes sense, it falls in line with the writings of individuals like Kamakau or I‘i and others.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: You have rights of certain accesses within your own ahupua‘a.

TGP:  Right.

KM:  But, the responsibility was that if you gather, you care for…

TGP:  Yes.

KM:  …the resources. Is that right?

TGP:  Yes, oh yes, yes.

KM: And you didn’t go, “Ahh, look that limu is more ‘ono over in Honouliuli, so I’m going to leave Pu‘uloa now and take from Honouliuli.”

TGP: I don’t think that even entered their minds. This idea of gathering from here, there, or anywhere. And Ka-uku Kalā was a very, very famous fisherman. And he fished the waters from Mokoli‘i all the way beyond to Kāne‘ohe Bay.

KM: So he fished all in to the Mōkapu, Kāne‘ohe Bay, and into the other side as well?

TGP:  No, no, not that far. He would go the distance that he could go alone in his canoe, beyond Mokoli‘i, into the deep water. And then the women gathered the limu and the shellfish and all from the area within their ahupua‘a, because actually, the ahupua‘a extended to the reef. But there was nothing of this transient gathering from here, there, and everywhere.

KM: Is this something that you remember hearing a little bit about also?

TGP: This idea of “gathering rights” sounds so extremely fictitious to me. I don’t know… I think it has come about through the need of the present entertainers to go beyond what would normally be available to them.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

TGP:  And now are declaring that they had rights to go anywhere.

KM: Hmm. It is very different. This is interesting, when you talk about Ka-uku Kalā, this kupuna and his fishing. Because he was kahuna nui…

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM:  …and he cared for these sacred lands. Was Kualoa a special place traditionally?

TGP:  Oh yes!  The five ahupua‘a, from Ka-lae-o-ka-‘oi‘o all the way to Waiāhole, those five ahupua‘a are the sacred lands of O‘ahu.  And they were Ka-uku Kalā’s domain, they were his responsibility. He was the kahuna nui of the sacred lands and that priesthood had come to him. Now Kualoa is, in my estimation, a fabricated name.

KM: ‘Oia [is that so]?

TGP: And I really wonder what its actual origin is [pauses to get something to drink]…

KM: So Ka-uku Kalā cared for those sacred lands, from Ka-lae-o-ka-‘oi‘o to Waiāhole, and the fisheries into the Kāne‘ohe Bay, up to Mōkapu. Did you ever hear anything about Mōkapu and the fisheries, or the lands there at all.

TGP: I’ve become interested in Mōkapu, simply because I’ve had to research Ko‘olau Poko. I was asked to conduct a Hawaiian Civic Clubs Tour of the windward side, and they told me they thought we should go from the Pali down to Mōkapu. And I said, “You’re not going to the sacred Lands?” And “Ohh!” I said, “Of course, you can’t go to windward O‘ahu via the Pali, without any kind of a tour having a beautiful climax at these sacred lands.” And so that’s how, I’ve come to research all of that Mōkapu area. And researched it simply because I had to know a little bit more than the people I was talking to [chuckles].

But I am bewildered at the amount of knowledge and no knowledge of Mōkapu. The group that seems to claim some kind of priesthood relationship with Mōkapu is the group that was headed by a Kahuna named Sam Lono, out of Ha‘ikū. And I know them, and I’ve been very nicely treated by them, and respected, but I just don’t know how… I can understand why they would pick Mōkapu as an important place, simply because the stories that center around Ulupa‘u. Of Kāne having selected that spot to have created the first man and first woman, however, like many, many, many of our Hawaiian stories, we must take them with a barrel of salt.

KM: ‘Ae. And the reason would be then, that this account of Kāne and the first man are perhaps…?

TGP: They probably originated long before the Hawaiians came here. And when the Hawaiians did reach areas, they remembered and then localized their stories.

KM: Ahh, so what you’re saying is that this legendary account, possibly, may not have been directly associated Mōkapu, Ulupa‘u, Kahakahakea, and…

TGP:  Hawai‘i Loa.

KM:  ‘Ae, Hawai‘i Loa. But that the names were carried and brought and then…?

TGP:  Attached.

KM: Attached to the areas. Have you heard, or what is your thought or consideration that some of these mo‘olelo, possibly ka‘ao have been influenced; just as the language is being influenced today, anglosized [from earlier comments by Aunty, regarding changes in the Hawaiian language today]. Is there a possibility that some of these mo‘olelo, ka‘ao bring in the Christian, some more recent beliefs or things…?

TGP: I don’t think that we have anything that is pure today. Anything that is purely Hawaiian. What we have today, are the mere remnants of vast, vast knowledge that came with the Polynesians at various eras and turns through their history, and became a part of what we now fictitiously call “Hawaiiana.” It became a part of Hawaiiana simply because Hawai‘i had to have a beginning.

KM: ‘Ae. You bring up such an interesting point [end Side A; begin Side B]… The fragments. Look at what John Papa I‘i’s title of his history was, I’ve gone through the Hawaiian-language newspaper and seen it. It was “Na Hunahuna Moolelo Hawaii,” The fragments of Hawaiian History.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: So even at his time, he saw that there was this great… and of course, in his time, they were watching thousands of the people die in short periods of time because of the diseases.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM:  Of course, that’s where Mōkapu comes in. Your hānai great grandfather…

TGP:  Uh-hmm, Ka-uku Kalā.

KM: Yes Ka-uku Kalā was of a few survivors, particularly of a priestly line, it seems.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: This kahuna nui that cared for these sacred lands. And it’s obvious that it was important enough to his generation, even though so many transitions were occurring in the Hawaiian history, and the condition of the people, that it was still passed on to him. And he sought to at least expose your mother to these histories.

TGP: Yes. And he wanted his punahele to have acquired something his, however, he told, when asked by his friends, he told his friends very definitely, that he was not going to pass on the priesthood to any of his sons. And he had four sons. Simply because it would be too dangerous. They would never live up to all the protocol, all the kapu. They could never, in their style of life, as it had changed, they could never be faithful to every iota of the priestly does and don’ts, all the kapu. And so he had ‘oki the priesthood and he disposed of his gods. My mama was sitting up in her hau-tree tree house when Ka-uku Kalā took his gods, and she knew, just what he had done with them. But that was pau.

KM:  Hmm. And mama them, were they living in Hakipu‘u at that time, or…?

TGP: Mama was still in Waikāne. See, Ka-uku Kalā’s home was at the end of Kamaka Lane. And Kamaka Lane is almost the division line between Waikāne and Hakipu‘u.

AE: The stories are so beautiful.

KM: Yes. You’d mentioned that you took this group of people, the civic club, and you told them they had to “see the sacred lands also.”

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: And earlier, you had said that you had a thought that perhaps the name Kualoa was something that…?

TGP: I have wondered about the origin of that name, because in some of the references the original name was Pali-kū. And Pali-kū has a close relationship with the priesthood, because there was the priesthood of Pali-kū, and not necessarily because of the escarpment or the cliffs, but simply because the priesthood was called Pali-kū. Now another possibility of this Kualoa name, is, in my thinking, “Akua-loa.” And very often, just as we have in Kealakekua, “akua” is abbreviated to “kua.” And Akualoa was the god that was carried in the Makahiki, the large, or long god. And the Makahiki rights occurred in that area.

KM: That was the culminating point, yeah.

TGP: That’s right. And Pohukaina, the great burial cave was entered from that end of the Kānehoalani range.

KM: Ahh, very interesting.

TGP: Sorry, we’re far away from Pu‘uloa [chuckling].

AE: I know, I told him, I said “She is so interesting.” She’s going to run another tour.

KM:  Was Ka-uku Kalā, ’cause, you’d brought up the lineage, this priesthood of Pali-kū, was Ka-uku Kalā in your understanding perhaps the last formal kahu in that line?

TGP: Probably in… [thinking] I can say definitely, yes. [Aunty coughing, tape off and back on]

KM:  We were just talking a little bit about some of the Akua-loa, Kualoa, some of that thought about the priesthood and it’s so interesting.

Of course we’re bouncing around a little bit, and I’m thinking that maybe as we talk, other thoughts will come to mind. And while the tape was off, we were just talking once again, a little bit about some of the native “rights” or “traditional rights” in gathering, and you said that you noticed that Kūpaka now, as an example, whereas before there was three feet thick beds of limu, now…?

TGP: Nothing. There’s… in fact, we’ve seen people walk the beach, or go along in the low tide on their tummies in the water, diving and plucking the very, very, tiniest of the limu growths.

KM: Hmm. So the old system of kapu, restricted seasons and gathering, and when you didn’t go out, had some intelligence to it eh?

TGP: It was the real means of conservation, they would have nothing, had they not had their kapus. And they knew that, and no one resented these kapus and no one attempted to sneak around them.

KM: Hmm, they were working within their own lands, the places their families were associated with, traditionally.

TGP: Uh-hmm. If they didn’t look after them, they had nothing. So they had to look after the resources and take care of them. And I don’t think that our Hawaiian people were unhappy under the kapu system. They were perfectly content, they didn’t know, they were not in a position to make comparisons. They didn’t know there was a better way. It was their way.

KM:  Was it better [chuckles]?

TGP: Well, they didn’t… the point of comparison was eventually thrust upon them and they were taught and told that the old way was no good, and that they could no longer be the “pagans” that they were admitted to. Then they began to look to something else. But, I think that awareness was fostered and perhaps forced upon them. The awareness of, “Well, there’s something else besides what we know.”

KM: Well, I think this is an important point also, coming back to how your kūpuna lived. They lived on an island, within an ahupua‘a, and each island and ahupua‘a had its wealth of resources, but it was limited. So you learned how to manage and care for it.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: You take too much today, you starve tomorrow, it makes great sense. So today we see people come in to gather, even the smallest… pulling the rock, the limu, or take the last of the fish. And you’d mentioned the ula, the lobster that were out here and things, and of course there was this wealth of fishponds out here. Were you folks still gathering anae or awa, anything out in these areas? And did the cowboy’s families go traveling places that you heard of and gather fish or things like that?

TGP:  Not… that would all be conjecture on my part. I would have to guess, simply because it didn’t ever, ever come into my range of experience, having other people in the area. You see, by the time I was growing up, Pearl Harbor was already established and the old Hawai‘i was long gone from the area.

KM: Yes. [speaking to aunty Arline] Aunty did you share that you couldn’t even take a canoe… Do you remember when you were a child, could you still go in here and canoe or boat or anything? Or had the closed down?

TGP:  By the military.

AE:  Uh-hmm. But I noticed, that they would allow the old… especially on your papa’s ranch, they would let them net fish.

TGP: Yeah, in the old days.

AE:  And they allowed them to go.

KM:  ‘Anae like that?

AE:  Yeah. They’d go in there.

TGP: But then, Fort Weaver wasn’t built up as it is today.

AE: Oh no.

TGP:  And you had access to the fishponds.

AE:  ’Cause you had to in among the kiawe trees and come along Waipahū and on down Honouliuli, so in this area was like nobody.

KM: So, where the salt works was and like where your house was, everything is bulldozed and knocked down? Is that correct, there’s no walls or anything left of the salt works, that you know of?

TGP: I’ve often wondered in going through that area, where there salt works were located, and I think they were located somewhat in the vicinity of the firing ranges now. They have some practice ranges out there. And just studying the contour of the land and that’s probably where they were located, and probably inland from the shoreline in that general area. Which is the entrance of Fort Weaver. And probably extended over into what is now the park.

AE:  Yes.

KM:  Which park?

TGP:  The ‘Ewa Beach Park.

AE: Pu‘uloa Park, they’ve put the name back to Pu‘uloa.

KM: ‘Ae.

AE: We’re trying to get Kimo Pelekāne put back too.

TGP: [chuckles] Kimo Pelekāne.

AE: That’s her grandfather.

TGP: My great grandfather was known by the native as Kimo Pelekāne, and everyone called him Kimo Pelekāne. He knew Hawaiian as well as he knew English, and he was a member of the House of Lords, in the old legislature. He would caution the Hawaiians in their wanting to promulgate new laws, and record. “If you say it this way, be careful, because if you say it this way, it’s going to mean this to the po‘e haole. But if you say it this way, this is what you mean, so you say it this way. This is your intent.”

KM: Hmm. What is your sense, there are a few sites that appear to be ancient, or early Hawaiian sites.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Some kahua hale, like, some pā, small enclosures.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: And at one place, and aunty Arline, I think you went there, there is a kahua [platform]…

AE: Yeah.

KM: [pointing out the size] … elevated from this wall, where the door is, it’s at least this big [roughly 12 × 12], squared. So you have a sense of… and this may be another part of it, did the sugar company, when they did their work, were they in the practice of building up nice stone mounds, or…?

TGP: Oh, well, it all depends. When they would clear sugar land, rather than cart the rock away, they would pile them up, and plant around them, so you weren’t aware of those mounds of rock until the cane was cut or burned. Then you became aware of them. I remember this down in Kohala.

KM: Yes. Here, behind One‘ula, among the various sites, one of the places is a kahua, an elevated platform, that is about this big.

AE: Yeah.

KM: In fact it’s mostly this coral, limestone-type of walls, you know. Do you remember hearing anyone talk about any old Hawaiian sites that had been mentioned, or that the cowboys, you know, spoke of?

TGP: I’d never been personally involved in any of the ancientness of ‘Ewa Beach. But, through my research, I can readily understand how it was. I don’t believe it was a heavily populated area because of the lack of fresh water. So it could have been an area of periodic habitation.

KM:  ‘Ae, seasonal, coming down to…

AE:  Like fishing.

TGP:  Yes fishing.

AE:  Spending time.

KM:  Ahh, gather pa‘akai.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM:  Dry fish like that.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

TGP:  And at the proper seasons.

KM: ‘Ae. It’s interesting, and of course, the kūpuna were so na‘auao, how they were able to live off of the land. Even what we wouldn’t drink today, the wai kai…

TGP: Yes they could tolerate it.

AE: The brackish water.

TGP: They could tolerate the brackish water. I know that the area also, and this is from research, was famous for its “dog people” [3]. You know, there was a caste, or a type of people, who had dog’s tails and this area was supposed to have been one of the areas that they inhabited. And they lived in the pits, underground.

KM: Ahh, and there are such things as hula ‘īlio, the dog chants and hula for the ‘īlio, like that.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: And my understanding is that the ‘īlio was a form of Kū, they were Kū associated. The cloud forms of the dog like that.

TGP: These were actually people and they evidently… I was reading about their having been very, very ferocious warriors. So they would join the ranks of the chiefs in battle and then they were seen in some of the… seen by people who had the fortune or misfortune of viewing the ‘oi‘o, the night marchers. And they were seen participating in the night march.

KM: Is Pu‘uloa a place that’s known for night marchers?

TGP:  I don’t know, but I would certainly assume so.

KM: As a child, you never remembered hearing the huaka‘i pō come by, personally?

TGP:  My mother, out at Niu. See, my parents moved from Kaimukī to Niu when I was 12 years old, and mama would hear the night marchers come down Hawai‘i Loa Ridge, which is very understandable. And then they would go along, right in front of the house. She got up and watched them, she wasn’t maka‘u. But it isn’t… the huaka‘i pō is something we just grew up with. We weren’t frightened by it, there was no maka‘u, it was just part and parcel of what we understood to be, the old folk’s way.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

KM: ‘Ae.

AE: Sometimes the parents would scare you too, they’d tell you “Don’t go over there.”

TGP: Uh-hmm. And my mom would tell stories of having seen the akua lele, the fire balls, and they’d run down the beach, wondering where it was going to land.

[pause – someone comes to the door]

KM: What is your sense of this land, and then preservation of what’s left of the Hawaiian sites, and care for these places, and the proposed development that they are looking at with Haseko? Do you have a…?

TGP: I find… well, my personal reaction is that I don’t believe the type of development that Haseko has in mind, is necessary. I don’t see a point in it. They were able to acquire acreage, to put in a marina [pauses] which, in my mind, doesn’t have… it has neither beginning… neither head nor tail. Why a marina? Why in ‘Ewa? Why this tremendous undertaking at a tremendous risk, because we don’t know, as people have warned us, whether or not the aquifer would be disturbed or the drainage of the underground waters would occur. But I just don’t see the reason for it, a good solid necessity in back of the Haseko move, I don’t see it. I can understand the housing, but not roof to roof as we see here today. And I can understand the preservation of the beach area, and a low-style condominiums along the beach. But I really question the marina and the dynamiting of the shoreline. 

KM: Hmm. Were the ocean resources important then, and do they remain important to the people, you think?

TGP: I don’t think people really look to the resources as resources anymore. If they enjoy the beach, it’s because it’s available. If they go down to One‘ula, it’s primarily to fish. You don’t see them in groups in any large numbers there, other than to picnic.

KM: Hmm. The community has changed drastically hasn’t it? After your time as a child, it sounds like there was no one out.

TGP:  That’s right.

KM:  One‘ula, no one out here.

TGP:  That’s right.

KM: When did the plantation housing and the village come up. Do you recall now?

TGP: ‘Ewa Village was the last plantation area of this whole locale, and ‘Ewa Plantation was very much in the works, and they had their extensive cane fields, through Honouliuli and all the way around, along Farrington Highway, almost to Nānākuli. The cane lands and all, that was all kō. The changes have been tantamount, but they’ve come about primarily with the closing down of sugar.

KM: So as the sugar closed down, there was a need to make money in other ways and vast development was done? Like Ko‘olina, or any of these housing developments? You’d mentioned, roof to roof.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: And of course as the population changed, I guess there’s not that sense of aloha.

TGP:  But you don’t really know which is the horse and which is the cart, which is before the other.  Was it the closing down of the plantation that caused the overextended development?  Or was the overextended development a part foreseen, and therefore, the plantations were closed down? Which came first?          It’s hard really to know, because private enterprise being what it is, the labor unions… Actually the advent of the labor unions was the beginning of the end of plantation life.

KM: Hmm. You had mentioned earlier, you are, of the old part Hawaiian resident of the Pu‘uloa-Honouliuli area, you are really amongst the last of the old timers that was here as a child.

TGP: I don’t know of anybody else, who’s older than I am, and who still resides here. And if there are people older than me, they came here after I had lived here.

KM: Hmm, that’s right. You folks have had a generational tie to this land also.

TGP:  Yes.

KM: Is it important to care for traditional Hawaiian sites?

TGP: Yes, very. Very important. But it is also as important to care for as it is to know the history and probably, if possible, how they came to be, and what their significance is in the area. And this is what Arline keeps insisting upon.

KM:  Yes, yes.

TGP: We know that there are sites, and we are beginning to understand why. I mean, these pits that are gold mines for the fossil findings and for the bones.

KM: Yes, Well, you also brought up, that interesting story that there were a po‘e ‘īlio, you know, people that were of the dog clan.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Just like they have pueo, manō, and there were these ‘īlio, people that were associated with the dog-like clan.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM:  And you have read, or heard that they lived within these pits?

TGP: Yes. Now the actual evidence of this information is hard to come by, it’s here and there. It’s scattered. Now Mary Kawena Pukui did a collection of stories of this area, and she’s quoted extensively in Elspeth Sterling and Catherine Summers’s Sites of O‘ahu [29]. And from that one volume, you can begin to deduct how much was known at the time, and how extensive the lore was for this area. There’s a great deal of lore associated with this area of ‘Ewa.

KM: Hmm. While you were still young, it appears that you were not hearing a great deal of the lore though.

TGP: Nothing.

KM: How about of the shark gods, or things like that?

TGP: I can’t say that my father’s side of the family, my haole side of the family, knew anything about it. I really don’t believe they did. Perhaps great-grandpa Dowsett knew, because he was a student, and very astute type of person, and it could have been so well know, as not to have been something to seek after. It was just part and parcel of the place.

KM: ‘Ae. Did you ever hear a story by chance, of a relationship between the Pu‘uloa fishery, and this comes back to where your Ka-uku Kalā was, and the fish migrating say between Pu‘uloa and…?

TGP: Oh, the mullet, yes. I know by research that that happens, and that it was extensive and it was seasonal, it happened every year. And I do know from my mother’s telling, that there was an underground access for the mullet from Kahana Bay to Mōli‘i Fishpond.

KM:  ‘Ae, so you heard of that Huilua Pond and the cave underneath?

TGP: Uh-hmm. And mama was taken into Pohukaina, into, and she has described the interior to me. But I don’t usually divulge what she has told me, simply because I don’t know how it is going to be understood.

KM: ‘Ae.

TGP: It might sound a little far-fetched. And yet in my mind, it’s perfectly logical.

KM: Of course.

TGP: And I do know that Ka-uku Kalā possessed the special mana of the kahuna nui, because mom said that when he took her into the cave, they had to leave their horses at a distance and walk—this was at Ka-lae-o-ka-‘oi‘o—and walk towards the towering cliff at the northern point of what we know as Kānehoalani Range.

KM: ‘Ae.

TGP: And then they went into a very, very narrow ravine, very narrow, and he picks up a stone, he knocks three times on the wall and the entrance appeared. And she was so astounded, she just grabbed his hand, and wondered what was happening.

KM: Hmm. Out of curiosity, did mama by chance, share with you, how did they see inside? Did it… I’ve heard from other people, not of that Pohukaina, necessarily, but of other places, that when you ‘oli, or you pule, and it would illuminate so you could see. Did mama say how they saw inside?

TGP: She just sort of took it for granted, she could see, and she never expounded. I’ve often wondered, just how they could see. However, what she saw in there would necessitate the entrance of sunlight. So there was a visibility.

KM: ‘Ae. It interesting to see that there is a relationship shared between these fisheries here in Pu‘uloa and back to the windward side also. And then to hear about these caves, these subterranean accesses that may have existed, and perhaps still do.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Did Ka-uku Kalā call on the fish, did mama say? You’d said that he was a fisherman, a chief fisherman for this fishery there.

TGP: Uh-hmm. I don’t know whether he called on the fish, but he had his shark, who led him to the fishing grounds. [smiling] Mom told a story of having begged him to take her out fishing with him, because he usually dropped her at the little bay on the outer side of Mokoli‘i to spend the day while he went off fishing. And this one time, she asked to go along and while they were paddling, he says, “Now whatever you see, you mustn’t be afraid.” So she wondered, “What had she to be afraid of?” And they were paddling along, her paddle was on the ama or outrigger side, and her paddle hit something. And she was in far too deep water to hit anything. So when she looked there, and she must have been about six years old, and when she looked over, she saw this shark who was swimming with the canoe on the outrigger side. The fin was very visible to her, so she kept edging away from that shark side. She’d rotate as they had to paddle so many strokes on one side and so many strokes on the other side, and she kept edging her way until finally, she capsized the canoe.

KM:  Oh my!

TGP: All Ka-uku Kalā did was to grab her by the hair and throw her on the shark, and she passed out. And when she came to, she was on Kualoa beach and she had to walk all the way home to Waikāne.

KM:  Amazing.

TGP:  So, we do know that he had his shark, and he was an ‘aumakua, a family ‘aumakua.

KM:  ‘Ae. Did he drive the fish?

TGP: It would lead him to the fishing spots. And then, mom had another very interesting experience as a little child. One day, she was at this little bay on the outside of Mokoli‘i and it was noon and hot, so she decided she was going to go dog paddle in the water. So she goes out and was on her toes in the ocean when she feels something in back of her. And all of the sudden, she was sitting on something. And the honu, a turtle had come in and lifted her up and seated her, and then took her for a ride in the bay, made the circuit of the little place several times, and then it eventually took her all the way around Mokoli‘i and back to the bay. And that honu befriended her for her lifetime. As long as she went back to Waikāne, the honu would come, and knew just exactly when to expect her. And when she arrived at Kamaka Lane, at Ka-uku Kalā’s home, they would see the honu making his way up the embankment, which was quite a steep embankment, up to greet her. She’d say “Yes, I’m coming tomorrow.” She’d promise, and the honu would turn around, and then she went swimming with her honu, the next day.

KM: Kūpaianaha! It’s so wondrous, this relationship, you know. Out of curiosity, you were a Nun for 50 years.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Was mama brought up, also in association with the church? Did you choose the Catholic Church as yours? And how do you… as a Hawaiian of today, and you’ve lived, you know…?

TGP:  [chuckles]

KM: …nearly 80 years. And you grow up with these stories and understanding this deep relationship between nature and the environment…

TGP: But there is no conflict. There is absolutely no conflict between what is Hawaiian and what is non-Hawaiian, in me. Absolutely no conflict, and no… I don’t demarcate in any way, between the Hawaiianess of my life and the non-Hawaiianess. So having become a Sister of the Sacred Hearts was just what I wanted to do after my graduation from the University of Hawai‘i, with an anthropology degree. [chuckles] The Mother Superior asked me, “What are you going to do with anthropology if you’re going to be a sister?” And I said, “Well suppose I don’t make it as a Sister, I have something to fall back on.” But that’s how, I’ve always been interested in Hawaiiana, and in anthropology. Peter Buck was still alive in those days, and the anthropology department was brand new, and I had a reading knowledge of French so I did a lot of my research work in reading materials that were available at the Academy of Arts, in French. And the people in the department would come in and listen to my book reports, simply because they didn’t know French. So there’s no [pauses], in me there is absolutely no one part Hawaiian, one part, no Hawaiian. It’s all blended.

KM: Uh-hmm. And the relationship between people and the creation, is compatible, whether it’s in the Hawaiian or…?

TGP: Yes. Now people will ask me, “Do you believe in Pele, Madam Pele?” And I say, “Well, I don’t disbelieve.”

KM:  Yes, uh-hmm, it’s a part of God’s creation.

TGP:  It’s a part of what we’ve always known and will always revere.

KM: Out of curiosity, and we were speaking earlier about Mōkapu, and that St. Katherine’s had been built there around January of 1843. And there is a picture, I tried to get a copy of it this morning, because I wanted to show you. But there was a Dr. Arning that was here in the 1880s, and he has a picture of the ruins of St. Katherine’s Church on Mōkapu.

TGP: Yes, you can’t see anything now, it’s all grown over.

KM: No, it’s all gone. One of the things that’s happened is that at Mōkapu, and this, what I’m leading into is, what is your sense then, as a Hawaiian, and as a person intertwining all of these skills, resources, knowledge, and spirituality? What is your sense of the burials? The rights of burials to the land, and Mōkapu of course, you mentioned Buck, you probably knew Kenneth Emory…

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Going into anthropology. And you were an early Hawaiian in anthropology. Because there still aren’t many Hawaiians in the field. What was the sense of burials and place, and returning, and do you recall anything about Mōkapu burials, by chance?

TGP: I really got into detail in Mōkapu burials, in planning for this tour, which was fairly recent. I’ve known about the Mōkapu burials for a long time. I just can’t understand why so much had to be done to these burials, just for the sake of giving people at the university a taste of archaeological pursuit. I just can’t see it. What did they expect to accomplish? And now, as they look back, there was nothing gained from it. Most of the positions of the remains were in positions that they’d already known about. They didn’t find anything new. They didn’t find any new artifacts. [chuckles] They didn’t find artifacts of any great extent. It was [sigh in exasperation], it was in my mind, as I look back at it, it was nonsensical to have ever done that.

KM: So Hawaiians in their burial customs and practices, what do you think then? As you’d said, nonsensical, this thing about Mōkapu and stuff. Should they just originally be left in the ground, where they came from? And did you hear stories, in fact here at Pu‘uloa, with all the these lua yeah? Did you ever hear stories about burial out here?

TGP: [shaking head]

KM: No. Interesting eh.

TGP: I don’t think this area was a long time area of habitation, although the legends would say to the contrary, because this is where the ‘ulu was brought. But I just don’t know how to interpret it…

TGP/KM: [brief discussions regarding transposition of place names in some historical texts]

KM: …There are obvious remnants of remains. You know the salt works were important, and in the earlier days where the kāheka, the natural salt beds.

TGP/AE:  Uh-hmm.

KM: And like aunty Arline was saying when we’d met previously, there was this area where the ponds are back here, and the old house sites and wetlands [in the vicinity of Sites 3201, 3202, and 3205]. Water was such an important resources, and we were wondering about salt works, or making there. If the people didn’t live down here permanently, where did they live? Where were the people coming from that made use of these resources out here?

TGP: As I sort of surmise now, I think the large areas of habitation were Waikele and then down through the lower part of what we call Waipahū. Now Waipahū is not a proper name. It’s neither an area or an ahupua‘a, it’s just a gushing well.

KM:  Ahh, yes, Wai-pahū, one site eh.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

AE:  That’s right.

KM:  [looking at Register Map 618] See where it says “Church” here?

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: This is in Honouliuli, right on the edge. There was all this taro land up here yeah?

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Do you think that that’s where the main people were living?

TGP: These taro lands of Honouliuli supplied the chiefs primarily. There weren’t any other taro lands, that I know of.

AE: Not over there.

TGP: And that’s why now, if the taro was here, the people were living not too far away from their taro lands. They had to work them, and the chiefly compound, at Waikele was conveniently close. Then, you also have Waipi‘o with its ponds.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

TGP: So I would say that the main area of population circled the West Loch.

KM:  ‘Ae. That’s interesting, and probably…?

TGP: Probably during seasons, they would come camp over here. They would have to bring their fresh water. Their tolerance of salt water could not extend for too long. [chuckles] You can’t do that for lengths of time.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

KM: And of course, it’s also very likely that before the cattle deforested a great deal of area here, that the water table into these lua meki, these pits and things, may have been, possibly, different also, There may have been a little more fresh water with good native ground cover, not like kiawe and stuff.

TGP: Well, the kiawe came in, in the 1820s.

KM:  Yeah, real early.

AE: They brought it in.

KM: Now, if the people then possibly were coming down here and fishing seasonally and then going back, this sounds like a practice, I think Aunty Arline, was saying that… Like the work that Tūtū Kawena did, Eli Williamson, as a child yeah, she would come down to Kualaka‘i…

AE: Yeah.

KM:  Seasonally, families were coming down and fishing, yeah.

AE: Yeah.

KM:  That was still happening.

AE: That was.

TGP: And it was a practice that was, I think, what you would call “Statewide.” You know the Kona area on the Big Island, ‘Anaeho‘omalu, all the way to Kalāhuipua‘a, and then even further towards Kohala.

KM:  Oh yes, and to Ka‘ūpūlehu and Kekaha also.

TGP: Uh-hmm. But the people from Anahulu came down and spent portions of the year at the shore.

KM:  Yes, like Alapa‘i mā.

TGP: Right. And they had their shelters in these caves and they would bring only what was necessary and they would always take back their partially crystallized kai and finish making their salt mauka. So it was done, these seasonal treks to other areas.

KM: So that’s what you visualize as being the practice here?

TGP: Yes, rather than a permanent settlement of any sort here. I’ve never heard of… I think the permanency, the settlement was in the Waikele area. There are more legends related to that area.

KM:   ‘Ae. It’s so interesting.

TGP:  [chuckling]

KM: This has been a rich kūkā kama‘ilio, talking story here about a variety of things. As a child, what are your fond recollections of this place? What are some of the activities that stand out?

TGP: I loved my grandmother. I was the oldest grandchild, and “Ama” was the name I gave her…

[end Side B, Tape 1; begin Side A, Tape 2]

TGP: [continues discussing her grandmother and her relationship to the Parkers]

… grandmother, Mary Parish.

KM:  And what was her relationship to the Parkers?

TGP: She was the sister of Tootsie, or Elizabeth Jane Dowsett-Parker, who later married Knight, and then later married Woods. But as Parker’s wife, she gave birth to Thelma Parker, her first and only child. Who in turn, became the mother of Richard Smart.

AE:  That’s so interesting.

TGP: So my grandmother and Richard’s grandmother are sisters, and so Richard and I are third cousins. And my father and Thelma Parker were in love with one another, and had they not been first cousins, they would probably have married [chuckles].

KM:  [chuckling] it didn’t stop a lot of people.

TGP:  Yes, but I think Aunty Tootsie had more to say about that [laughing].

KM: Ahh. So, you loved coming down here?

TGP: Yes. And Ama would go to Kamuela almost every year, with Aunt Tootsie when Aunt Tootsie would come from her home in Los Gatos, and spend time on Parker Ranch. And then Ama would come back to us here with the lauhala hats that she would purchase at Do Ching Store in Kamuela, and then she would line them. I had the blue lining, a bandanna, and my brother had the red lining. And so we always had our lauhala hats when we were playing on the beach. We didn’t dare go without a hat, it was “Where’s your hat? Go get your hat.” [chuckles] I think, I our lauhala hats and our sausage bag ‘eke, were really what I remember most about Kūpaka [chuckling].

KM: Hmm. Were there any Hawaiian, permanent residents, cowboys, down here at all, or was the ranch pretty much pau?

TGP: I don’t remember anyone living here, any of that.

KM: So papa them would come down weekends?

AE:  Weekends.

KM:  So basically, the ranching operation itself, didn’t require a big labor force, there weren’t a bunch of paniolo?

TGP: No, no, no.

KM:  How do you say the word “paniolo,” or “paniola”?

TGP:  Paniolo.

KM: Okay.

TGP:  No, this skeleton crew, I’m going through some letters that I have.

AE: No, not too many.

TGP: No. Now, these letters were written between my grandmother and my great grandfather, when my grandfather acquired Ulupalakua Ranch on Maui. And my grandmother and her husband, Leonard Parish went up to run the ranch for my great grandfather. And the letters indicate just how… well, all the goings on at Ulupalakua and again here at Kūpaka on Pu‘uloa. And they always refer to the area as Pu‘uloa in the letters. And they refer to James Dowsett Jr. as recuperating here.

AE: So we’re not sure yeah, from what.

TGP:  And I know it was in the area, but I don’t know where. Probably, and if get together…

AE: [pointing to the Pu‘uloa houses marked on the map] Probably those houses down there.

KM: There’s little houses indicated down here, in amongst these walled enclosures.

TGP: Oh, uh-hmm.

KM:  You’ll see it better on your map. But, it’s very interesting.

TGP: There was nothing mauka?

KM: Well, there were, but see, this map is 1873, so it doesn’t reflect what occurred a little later, you know?

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

KM:  You know, I just look at this land, the rich fisheries, you know that there had to be activity, even if it was people coming across occasionally.

TGP: Yeah.

KM: And still, the Honouliuli taro farmers were still active at that time.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

AE: You know, sister, I can’t remember the name, but I’ll find out, somebody told me that there was a ranch right across here, right next to the shopping center. They gave me the name of the family, but I don’t recognize it.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

AE: I’ll find out for sure from Amber.

KM: That [looking at the map] Robinson Ranch, was somewhere makai.

AE:  I remember you’d said that.

KM:  Where would you place us, where we’re sitting, on this map? If this is One‘ula, we’re just a little bit over here?

TGP:  Yeah, Haseko takes in this area.

KM:  Yeah, it comes behind One‘ula.

TGP/AE:  Uh-hmm.

KM:  Did you remember ever hearing this name, “Kualaka‘i” or “Kualakai,” as a place name here?

AE: That’s where the lighthouse was.

TGP: [shaking head no]

KM: So you don’t remember hearing that name?

TGP:  No. It was only Barber’s Point, ‘Ewa Village, and One‘ula, above use.

KM:  Very interesting.

TGP:  Mary Pukui came down in this area. She talks about those dogs.

AE: Her dog.

KM: And the huaka‘i eh.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Oh, mahalo. Thank you so much for just being willing to talk story.

TGP:  Uh-hmm.

AE/TGP: [brief discussion of how place names are being mispronounced and improperly translated]

[tape off, then back on]

KM: [the aunties were talking about new place names in the ‘Ewa District, and how inappropriate they were, some not even of Hawaiian origins] … Haseko’s looking at place names. What do you feel about that? If they’re going to this development, shall they just name it whatever they like, “anywheres-ville” or try to use names that are…?

TGP:  There’s no excuse for them not to research and find names applicable to the area. There’s no excuse for their not finding applicable names.

AE: I believe that they got Keone Nunes to come in and sit in, and talk to about that. Like Keone says, he doesn’t come from this area, and I know that Rubellite [Johnson] did the names in Kapolei, and I made mention of this, that if there was anything of… You know, because she does extensive research work. Somebody that knows, not just any old body, making a name for here. That’s what happened with that Gentry, they just… look at the names they have.

TGP: It reflects a good deal of the po‘e haole thinking.

KM: ‘Ae.

AE:  ‘Uh-hmm.

KM: That’s back of all of this kind of development.

AE:  [chuckles] She’s telling that, every time I hear her, I think “Oh oh, there’s sister now talking about the po‘e haole.”

KM: But you know, it’s true, if they were so in love with El Dorado and all this stuff, maybe they should go back and live there.

AE: Yeah.

TGP:  It’s so stupid! To have to put up with this nonsensical names.

AE: In fact, when we were going to the council for Haseko, and that fellow that helps with that development, that Japanese fellow from Gentry, he was there. And I asked him, “Where do you folks get your names from? Don’t you research? There are so many beautiful names, why?” And he said “We don’t do anything with it, there’s a department.” I said, “you’re in charge of these things, aren’t you interested in what’s going on?” Well, it ended up with giving us some money. But you know, the money didn’t have anything to do with it. We put it into the community foundation and all that, but still, you know. And I know that Haseko has lost quite a bit of money, millions of dollars.

TGP: Well, just these delays, every day costs something.

AE:  They’re not shrewd or anything, they’re just losing the money.

KM: Ah-well, mahalo. Thank you, thank you so much.

TGP:  You’re welcome.

KM: For being willing to talk story.

TGP: It’s been a pleasure.

KM: This mana‘o is very important, and I see it for broader things. I look forward to seeing you again. And if there is anything I can do to be of help, please let me know.

Following the interview, Sister Parish shared several other short historical recollections, among them was the tradition of Kahahana having his priest Ka‘ōpulupulu killed and the prophecy at Pu‘uloa:

Pu‘u kāhea in the Wai‘anae District is a very important place in the history of O‘ahu. It is where the chief Kahahana was when he ordered the death of the high priest Ka‘ōpulupulu and his son, Kahulupu‘e. At Nānākuli, Kahahana failed to acknowledge the calls of his priest, and it was from that area, that Ka‘ōpulupulu then instructed his son to run to the ocean, for their revenge would come from across the sea. Ka‘ōpulupulu was killed at Pu‘uloa. A short while after that, Kahahana himself was killed by his uncle Kahekili of Maui, who had turned him against the aged priest Ka‘ōpulupulu. Thus the prophecy was fulfilled.

Related Documents

Hawaiian historian Moses (Mose) Manu penned several lengthy traditions for the native newspaper Nupepa Ka Oiaio in which he included detailed accounts of a wide range of practices, including those associated with fisheries and deified guardians of the ocean and freshwater fisheries. This account, “He Moolelo Kaao Hawaii no Laukaieie…,” was published between January 5, 1894 and September 13, 1895. The tradition is a rich and complex account with (i) island-wide references to places; (ii) descriptions of place name origins; (iii) descriptions of fisheries and aquatic resources; and (iv) history and mele, interspersed with accounts from other traditions and references to nineteenth-century events.

The following excerpts of Manu’s account were translated by Maly and include an overview of the moolelo and reference narratives which recount the travels of Makanikeoe, one of the main figures in the account. During his travels, Makanike‘oe sought out caves and tunnels that served as underground trails, and through the description of his travels, we learn about some of the wahi pana and resources of the lands through which he traveled. The selected translations also focus on several of the descriptions of fishing, including locations where various species can be found, and the religious-spiritual significance of marine resources:

Kaholokuaiwa (w) and Koaekea (k) lived at Ulu, in Waipio Valley on the island of Hawaii. They were descended from the chiefly and godly lines of Kahiki and Hawaii. Their first child was Laukaieie. But because she was born in an eepa (mysterious) form, looking more like a plant than a child, she was wrapped in lipoa seaweed and set in the stream. Without her parents’ knowledge, Laukaieie was retrieved by a mountain goddess and nurtured. Later, another child, a son, was born to Kaholokuaiwa and Koaekea. They named him Hiilawe, and he lived with his parents.

Koaekea’s sister was Pokahi, and her husband was Kaukini. Though they had been married for a long time, they were childless, and because of their prayers and offerings, the forest goddess, Hinauluohia, approached Pokahi while she was gathering seaweed, and told her that she would have a girl child to raise as her own. The condition was that no one, not even her brother and sister-in-law were to know about this child. Because Pokahi and Kaukini lived on the mountain ridges between Waipio and Waimanu, it was easy for her to keep the secret. It was in this way, that Laukaieie came to be raised by her own aunt and uncle. As a youth, Laukaieie’s companions were the spirits of the plants and animals of the forest. When she matured, she was very beautiful, and thoughts of finding an acceptable mate for her began to grow. One night, when Laukaieie was sleeping, she dreamed of flying past the valley lands of Hawaii, and across Maui, Molokai, Oahu, Kauai, Niihau, Kaula, and on to Lehua,1 where she saw a handsome young chief, named Kawelonaakalailehua. It was this chief that was destined to become her husband.2

The following accounts describing places of the Ewa District and neighboring lands are excerpted from the longer narratives which describe the travels of Laukaieie, her younger brother Makanikeoe, and their companions. The lei momi (pearl garlands) of Ewa were described while Laukaieie and her companions were at Kaana, Molokai:

Leiomanu (a youth of Kaala, Oahu) gave Kaana of Molokai, and Kawelonaakalailehua, the prized lei momi of Ewa as gifts. The characteristics of these pearls (momi) included those with a fine yellowish tint, others had bumps like diamonds, and some were bluish-yellow. There were many types of pearls, and they were once regularly seen in the sheltered bays of Ewa at Oahu. They came from the Pipi (oysters), and the pearls were found near the edges of the Pipi shell. They were a thing greatly cherished by the chiefs of old and worn in lei (necklaces). This is why it is said:

My fish which quiets the voices,
You mustn’t speak or the wind will blow.

This is the famous thing of Ewa, where the fish quiet the voices, to these new times.3 This is the type of lei which had been given to the alii of Lehua, the island which snatches the sun…4

… Laukaieie and her companions, Hinahelelani and Koiahi arrived at Honouliuli and were greeted by the natives of that land. Koiahi, a chiefess from Makua, Waianae, was related to Kahoonani (w), Ulalena (w), and Kauakiowao (k), the alii of Honouliuli. It is for these alii that the chant is sung:

Kahoonani resides upon the plain,
Ulalena is completely surrounded by the Kauakiowao rains…

While they were being hosted at the house of these natives, they saw the beginnings of a red-hued rainbow form near the shore and knew that Kauakiowao, the elder brother of the two beautiful sisters, was crossing the flat lands, drawing near to house. When he arrived, Hinahelelani asked Koiahi to invite Kauakiowao to accompany them on their journey to Kauai… The party departed from the residence at Honouliuli and traveled to Puuokapolei, where they met the young maidens Nawahineokamao and Peekaua, the beauties who dwelt upon the lowlands of Puuloa. These two maidens accompanied the travelers to Waimanalo and Kaiona, for which the song writer of the late chiefess Bernice Pauahi Bishop wrote:

Respond o woman,
Who travels the plain of Kaiona,
Pursuing the mirages,
On the plain covered with ohai blossoms.

Thus, all these beautiful residents of the land of Honouliuli were gathered together, by the famous beauty of Waianae (Koiahi), who is there on the resonating and fine sands of Makua…5

… While Laukaieie and her companions were traveling through Waianae, Makanikeoe was following behind. Having landed on the shores of Mamala, he then traveled to Kahakaaulana and the landing at Kalihi. He then looked down along the glistening sands and waters where the mullet are found, outside of Keahua, at the place called Keawakalai. There he saw a crevasse open in the sea. In this place, were sleeping many sharks and turtles, almost as if under the sand. Makanikeoe quickly entered into the cave with the turtles and sharks, to see them more closely. Because of his great speed, they didn’t know that he had entered their house. It is true that Makanikeoe crawled along one of the crevasses in the sea, and going beneath the land, he exited out at Aliapaakai, at the place called Manawainuikeoo. That is the entrance of the sea into that great salt water pond of Moanalua…

Let the author explain here, that this channel was first made when Pele traveled along the islands making craters here and there. This crater is something like the crater of Kauhako, at Kalaupapa, Molokai.

By this little explanation my readers, you may also know that the remaining crater is there above Aliamanu, the hiding cave of the chief Kahahana, his companion, Alapai, and his beautiful wife, Kekuapoi. He (Kahahana) is the one who killed the priest Kaopulupulu and his son Kahulupue, at Waianae. This is how the famous words of the priest came to be spoken:

Strive for the sea my son,
for from the sea shall come (others of) another land.

And this cave has been given the name “Pililua” from the time of the death of the chief Kahahana.

Pililua, the two of you shall go to Ewa,
You are like a canoe,
Pulled by the rope,
To the cliff of Kealia,
At Kamaomao,
There at Kinimakalehua.

After seeing these places, Makanikeoe then went to the top of Leilono, one of the deity of ancient times. There is a pit dug there in which the foul smelling bodies of the dead and the defiled matter of the dead are thrown.

Makanikeoe left that place and went to a place that was covered with something like a rough pahoehoe surface, below the present-day 5 mile marker on the road at Kapukaki. There he saw the spirit of a woman moving swiftly over a portion of the pahoehoe. Makanikeoe recognized that this was a spirit form rather than that of a living woman, and he felt compassion for her. He then saw that there was a deep pit there, filled with the spirits of dead people, swaying back and forth, and crying out, with moaning and wailing. This is the pit which in ancient traditions is called Kaleinaakauhane. The spirits of the dead go there and can only be freed if their aumakua (ancestral family god) fetches them. They might even be returned back to life again…

Now you may be wondering my readers, what was the name of this woman that Makanikeoe took up in his hands. Well the writer will tell you the name of this beautiful young woman of Kaiahamauleo o Ewa-nui-a-Laakona (The fish that quiets the voice of Great-Ewa-of-Laakona), it was Kawailiula. She was a native of two lands of Ewa, Waiau and Waimano. And it is for this woman that Kawailiula, between the 9 and 10 mile markers from Waiau and Manana 2nd is named; it is near the present-day court house of Ewa…

At this place, Kaleinaakauhane, hundreds and thousands of spirits have been lost…6

…Makanikeoe then went to the uplands, atop the cliffs and ridges of Koolau, where he looked down and chanted:

Beautiful is Halawa in the Waahila rains,
Which visits also, the heights of Aiea,
The heat and warmth travels across the plain of Kalauao.

It is true, that he then went to Kalauao, where he saw the pool of Kahuawai. He turned to the uplands and saw the source of the water coming out of the earth, near the top of the cliff of Waimalu. The source of this water, from where it flows, cannot be easily seen because it comes out from the ground in an area where there are many deep holes hidden on the side of the cliff of Waimano. It is from one of these pits that the water flows. It is also at one of these places that the body of David Malo7 was laid to rest.

This place, between Waiau and Waimano, called Waipuhia, is the place of Kawailiula, who was brought back to life at Kaleinaakauhane, at Kapukaki…

Kawailiula invited Makanikeoe to her home where food was prepared, the anae (mullet) from the pond of Weloka and the famous foods of the land. Kawailiula invited Makanikeoe to stay with her, but he declined, explaining that his elder sister and her companions were waiting for him at Waianae… Kawailiula bid farewell to Makanikeoe and he disappeared from sight, born by the wind, Moaeku of Ewa.

Makanikeoe then traveled to Manana, now the 10 mile marker, and the place where the court house of Ewa stands. This is the place where Oulu, the famous warrior of Kahekili, king of Maui, was surrounded by warriors who thought to take him prisoner. It is there that Oulu fought like the eel Palahuwana, and with great strength and skill, overcame those who fought against him. The place where this fight occurred is called Kaoinaomakaioulu to this day.

Makanikeoe then followed the trail to a place where he saw a large gathering of youth along the trail, at the place called Napohakuhelu. The activity of the children at this place was the shooting of arrows, something that was always done by the youth of those times.

There was among this gathering of youth from Waiawa, a handsome boy named Kanukuokamanu (not to be confused with a place of the same name in Hilo, Hawaii). His place of residence was on the shoreward side of the government road, a place something like a hillock from where one can look to the estuary of Waiawa. It is about at the ten and a half mile point, and the place is known by the name of this youth today.

When Makanikeoe arrived at the place where the youth were playing, he was saddened at seeing the young boy crying. This was because the older children had taken all the arrows, and left none for the younger child to play with. Makanikeoe took the young boy away from the group to a place off to the side. He told the boy “Stop crying and I will give you an arrow of your own. This arrow will fly farther than any of the arrow of your friends.” Makanikeoe then gave the boy an arrow like none other he’d seen.

Now Kanukuokamanu was the son of the chief of Waiawa … When he returned to the group of other children who were still playing, he prepared to compete as well. He chanted first to his arrow:

Kaailehua flies,
Kainiki flies,
Ahuahu flies…8

Kanukuokamanu shot his arrow and it flew beyond all the other arrows of the competitors. It flew all the way to “the end of the nose of the pig” at Waimano, and then returned to the youth who had shot it…

Makanikeoe then departed and was lost from sight. Looking seaward, Makanikeoe saw the fin of a shark passing by, in front of a stone in the estuary of Waiawa, on the west side of Kanukuokamanu, next to Piliaumoa. Seeing the shark, Makanikeoe drew nearer and he saw that it was Kahiuka, a native of this estuary. His cave was comfortably situated on the side of the stone. Kahiuka was a good shark, and in his story, he is the guardian of Manana and Waiawa.

The author has met a man at Manana who was known by the name, Kahiuka. He learned the traditions of this shark in his youth, and was taken by this shark for a period of time, and returned again to the land in good health. The man has since died, but his daughter is still alive, and his story is an amazing one.

After seeing the house of this hero of the sea (Kahiuka), Makanikeoe turned and walked along the place where the waters flow from the land at Piliaumoa, Mokaalina, Panaio, Kapuaihalulu, Kapapau, and Manuea. The trail then turned and went to the top of Haupu, where the foundation of the Luakini (Church) of Ewa was later situated. Near there, was a large pond in which awa (milkfish), anae (mullet), and aholehole (Kuhlia sanvicensis) fish were found.

Oh readers, let the author explain something here. At the time Luau came from Maui to dwell on Oahu, he arrived at Waiawa, Ewa. He saw some men thatching dried ti leaves on the Luakini (church) that was being built there. Luau asked some people, “Who is the one that is having this important house built?” They answered, “Kanepaiki.” Luau then stated, “The house shall not be finished to its ridge pole before the one who is having it built dies.” The people asked, “Why?” Luau answered, “The house is atop the Heiau (temple) and the Fishpond is below, it is because the waters [life and wealth] are flowing out from this place. (So too shall the life flow out.)” These words of Luau were true, the Luakini of Waiawa was not completed before Kanepaiki died. His body was buried in the uplands of Waimalu.

These were the words of Luau. The one who discerned the nature of the land (kuhikuhi puuone), in the time of the King Kauikeaouli K. III. And his descendants are still living at Kanaio, Honuaula, Maui…

From this place, Makanikeoe then turned and looked to the calm waters of Kuhia Loko and Kuhia Waho. He went to the ponds and saw water bubbling out, and in the pond were many fish of the sea. It was of this pond, that Kane and Kanaloa spoke, while in Kahiki, as heard by the prophet Makuakaumana, who crossed the sea and traveled to Hawaii:

The mullet are at Kuhia-loko,
The seaweed is at Kuhia-waho,
The salt is at Ninauele,
The nehu pala are at Muliwai
The lone coconut tree stands at Hape,
The taro leaves are at Mokaalika,
The water is at Kaaimalu,
The awa is gathered at Kalahikiola.
Behold the land.

All of these places named by the gods can be seen, extending from the sea of Waiawa, to Halalena at Waiawa uka.

From this place, Makanikeoe then went to a large deep spring which flows from waters beneath Waipio and Waiawa. At a place where the priests discard their offerings. He then came upon another spring at the entrance of the estuary of Waiawa. The trail then turned towards Palea and Pipiloa, where there grew groves of kou and hau in ancient times, and it was the residence of the rulers of Oahu. This is the place where the king of Oahu, Kualii-a-Kauakahiakahoowaha, found his first wife, Kawelaokauhuki, who was of the uplands of Waimano. It is this Kualii who built the long house called Makanaole, on the inland plains of Manana 2nd. It is near the place now called Kulanakauhale Momi (Pearl City).

Makanikeoe then traveled to the fishponds of Hanaloa and Eo, the great ponds of Ewa. It is for these ponds that the lines of the song say:

The water of Eo is not fetched,
It is the sea of Hanaloa that ripples forth.

At this pond, Makanikeoe saw a deep crevasse and inside, there was a giant eel sleeping. The name Hanaloa was given because of the great amount of work that was done by the chief and the people in carrying the stones with which to surround the crevasse and build the pond wall. Thus the pond was built. And it is a famous pond for it is rich with fish, and for the eels which Keinohoomanawanui desired to eat.

From the pond, Makanikeoe then walked to a place where there were several small points of land, near where Papio was bitten and where the sea enters Honouliuli. He noticed how very calm the surface of the water was here, but he also saw that it was agitated in its depths. Looking more closely, he saw in the depths some very large fish, as if guarding the entrance to the harbor. One of these two large fish was like a marlin with a long bill and rows of teeth. The other one was a barracuda whose teeth protruded out of both sides of its mouth. These two fish of the bays of Ewa, had ears with which to hear. They leapt in the ocean like flying fish, and are spoken of in some of the traditions of Hawaii.

The marlin is the one, who with his sharp bill, divided the waters that enter into Ewa. Thus, Makanikeoe understood the nature of these fish, and what their work was. They were the guardians of the place. It is true also, that in a short while Makanikeoe saw a procession of many sharks arrive. There was in this group, the famous chiefess, Kaahupahau, of Puuloa, and the messengers of the king shark [Kamohoalii] of Kahoolawe. She was taking them on a tour and to drink the waters of Waipahu and Waiahualele, and to drink the awa from Kahauone, in Waipio uka…

Makanikeoe then turned again to the place where Papio had been bitten as a result of her asking for the ilima [Sida fallax] garlands of the old woman, Koihala. This is what the old woman told Papio:

The beautiful girl asks,
That the garlands of the old woman be given to her.
Heed my words dirt of the dog, dirt of the pig,
String your own garland and let it wilt.

Makanikeoe then departed from this place, turning to the plain of Puuloa. He passed many pits in this place where the bones of men have been left. He then followed the trail of the breadfruit tree, Leiwalo, at Honouliuli. This is the breadfruit tree of the expert sailor, Kahai (Kauluakahai), so told in his story.

There are also many pits in which were planted sugarcane and bananas, and planting mounds. He also saw manu oo (honey creepers) sipping the nectar of noni blossoms. There were also two ducks that had gone into a pit, and with a great strength, they were trying to push a stone over, to hide the pit. This Makanikeoe knew what the ducks were trying to do. They wanted to hide a spring of water which flowed underground there. It is this spring which in calm times could be heard, but not found by the people who passed through this area. It was a secret spring, known only to certain native residents of the area, and its name is recorded in the last line of the song:

The o-u is the joyful bird of Kaupea,
The joyful voiced o-o is of Puuloa,
Softening the blossoms of the wiliwili,
Drinking the drops of nectar from the noni,
The birds drink and pass time,
The eyes cast about seeking,
The water of the natives,
The eyes seek the water of Kaiona.

This hidden spring, known only to the natives, was not hidden to Makanikeoe. From there, Makanikeoe then turned back towards Honouliuli and saw the pit of the native eel, Kapapapuhi, the elder of Laumeki, whose stone-form body is there at the base of Kauiki, Hana, Maui. He was an eel of Oahu who traveled to Hana where he stayed and was turned into stone.

There is also at this place, Kaihuopalaai, where the anae (mullet) begin their journey from Honouliuli to Kaihukuuna at Laiemaloo, Koolauloa. Seeing this pit, Makanikeoe swiftly ran back to Waipahu, where he looked at the source of the water, where it came out of the earth, and flowed to the estuary of Waikele.  Makanikeoe dove into the water to determine its hidden source. He swam underground, and first arrived at Kahuaiki, at Waipio, for which the song is sung:

Return to the coolness of Waipio,
The cold water of Kahuaiki…

He then dove under and came out on the plain of Puunahawele, that barren and peopleless plain. There he saw the source of the water of Kahuaiki. It is near a hidden stone (shaped like a hook pendant) and close to Kekuaolelo, along the trail which ascends straight up to Waipio uka. Makanikeoe then turned and followed the water path, and with great strength, he arrived at Kawaipuolo, at Waialua. There, he saw the pool of Laniwahine in the famous pond of Ukoa. He then quickly went from Waialua to Kawela, and from there, to Punahoolapa, a deep spring on the plain of Kahuku. There he found the water source that the kapa anvil fell into and was carried to Waipahu, at Ewa. Makanikeoe then crawled along another path and arrived at Punamano, also at Kahuku…9

Makanikeoe continued his journey through the various springs of Oahu, until he rejoined his sister and companions at Waianae. The group then continued on their journey to Kauai.

1The lengthy narratives include site descriptions and traditional accounts for various locations across the island named.
2Moses Manu, Nupepa Ka Oiaio, January 5 to 19, 1894. Trans. by Maly.
3Tradition has it that the pipi (mother of pearl oysters) were very sensitive to any sounds, and those who were noisy would scare the shellfish into hiding. Thus, when going to catch pipi and other similar oysters, no one spoke. See Pukui [26:no. 493, 1357, and 1377].
4Nupepa Ka Oiaio, March 9, 1894, p. 4.
5Ibid., April 19, 1895, p. 1.
6Ibid., April 26, 1895, p. 1.
7This is not David Malo of Lahaina Luna, but a namesake, who was also a historian and active church member.
8Nupepa Ka Oiaio, May 3, 1895, p. 1.
9Ibid., May 10, 1895, p. 1.

One of the great traditions of the Puuloa area is tied to the event of ca. 1782, when Kahekili, king of Maui, tricked his nephew Kahahana, king of Oahu, into killing his high priest Kaopulupulu. Kahekili had raised Kahahana, and he desired to control Oahu in addition to his own islands of the Maui group. It was the priest Kaopulupulu who instructed Kahahana and warned him against certain actions proposed by Kahekili. S. M. Kamakau reported that about eight years into Kahahana’s reign as king of Oahu, Kahekili succeeded in tricking Kahahana into killing Kaopulupulu.1

The deceived Kahahana called for Kaopulupulu and his son Kahulupue to be brought before him at Waianae. The call was made from Puukahea (Hill of calling). Upon the summons, Kaopulupulu prayed to his gods and discerned that he and his son would be killed once in the presence of the chief. Arriving at the place now called Nanakuli, Kaopulupulu called out to Kahahana who looked at him, but made as if he didn’t hear the call (nana kuli). Kaopulupulu then knew for certain that he and his son were to be killed, and he told Kahulupue:

“I nui ke aho a moe i ke kai! No ke kai ka hoi ua aina!”

Strive to lie down in the ocean!  For our revenge will come from other lands across the sea.2

Kahulupue ran into the water near Puuohulu where he was killed. Kaopulupulu continued his flight across the Honouliuli Plain to the shore of Puuloa, where he was then killed. Elder kamaaina have expressed the thought that the prophecy of Kaopulupulu was fulfilled with the arrival of foreigners, the loss of their land and kingdom, and military control over Puuloa (Pearl Harbor), and even the advent of World War II.3

1Nupepa Kuokoa, March 23, 1867.

2S. M. Kamakau, March 23, 1867.

3Personal communication, Samuel Hoapili Lono, 1973, and Sister Thelma Genevieve (Dowsett) Parish, 1997, to Kepā Maly.

Below are two interviews conducted by Kepa and Onaona Maly with Aunty Arline Wainaha Puulei Brede-Eaton. Aunty Arline grew up in Puuloa and has been an incomparable resource. The first interview was done in 1997 and the second was in 2011.

The following information is a paraphrased summary of historical recollections collected during an informal interview conducted by Kepa Maly on March 4, 1997 with Arline Wainaha Puulei Brede-Eaton, a.k.a. Aunty Arline and Kupuna Eaton. Aunty Arline gave her permission for release of the interview records during the meeting and interview with Sister Thelma G. Parish on May 2, 1997. The information was collected as a part of the effort to develop a site preservation plan in conjunction with proposed development on a parcel of property on the Ewa Plain, in the land of Honouliuli. The property is generally situated on the coastal flats, between Oneula and Kualakai, and while the area has been impacted by cattle ranching and WWII military operations, a number of native Hawaiian cultural sites still remain on the property.

Born in 1927, Aunty Arline has lived in Puuloa nearly all of her life. Aunty’s hanai parents had been going to the Puuloa vicinity for years—Papa Brede oversaw ranch operations for the Dowsetts—and by the time Aunty was born, had bought land and built a home at Puuloa. Initially the family spent weekends and holidays at Puuloa, living in Kalihi on weekdays. Aunty observed that many of her earliest memories are of her days at Puuloa, and today she is one of the oldest longtime native Hawaiian residents remaining on the land.

In those early days, Aunty recalls that they were among the few families living in the area. Besides her family, Dowsett Ranch had about 12 cowboys, all Hawaiians, and their families. Few other people lived in the area. When asked about her recollections of life and activities in those early years, Aunty Arline shared the following memories:

Interviewee   Arline Wainaha Puulei Brede-Eaton (AE)
Interviewer  Kepa Maly (KM)
Date  March 4, 1997

The whole region was our playground, we’d go to Keahi, go by canoe to Laulaunui and fish, and in the other direction, we’d walk as far as Kalaeloa. As children, we’d never think twice about walking anywhere, the distance was nothing. We would walk from Puuloa to the shore at (Ke) Oneula, and then on to Kualakai, and along the way we would gather limu (sea-weed). There was limu kohu, lipoa, and eleele, and the fish were so plentiful, not like now. We’d catch oio, kala, weke, moana, uu, and all kinds of fish. It was a good place. Back when I was a child, there was more sand also, the entire shoreline was like the beach at Barber’s Point. Today, the shoreline has all of that craggy coral, before had sand between the coral and the water. Things have changed now, I don’t know why.

While no one was living full time out between Keoneula and Kualakai, there were families that would come out for several months at a time. Sort of like my dad them, they’d work in town or somewhere else, and set up temporary residence on the beach. They didn’t own the land, but they would go out and stay for certain periods of time. The people would fish, gather limu, and make paakai (salt). Other than that though, there was no one living out here. There was not much activity in the area behind the shore. I don’t remember that there were cattle back there, and the sugar ended further inland. The CPC had a camp down by Keoneula, and in from there, there was an old piggery and the old chicken farm. The chicken farm was run from around the early 1930s to 1970.

In response to several questions, Aunty offered the following recollections and comments.

KM: When you’d go out into the area of the proposed Haseko development, did you ever hear your parents or any of the old cowboys speak about Hawaiian sites or any stories in the area?

AE: I don’t remember hearing too much about any of the history in the area, but I do remember being told that there were some heiau in the area. I think that site (Site 3209) in the Haseko property, the one that will be included in the preservation plan, the coral stone platform is one of the heiau sites. I remember being told that the heiau in this area were good heiau, the kind used for fishing, rain, and agriculture.

KM:  Where did people get water from when they were out there?

AE: There’s water out there, its wai kai, but we were used to that water, not like today. You can tell that there’s water there along the shore, you can see it bubbling up, and the limu eleele will only grow where there is fresh water coming out of the papa (reef flats). And you know, when I was young, there was a lot more water in the ponds back there. People don’t believe me, but I remember when I was a child, there was a lot of water there.

KM: Do you remember the wetlands?

AE: Yes. That’s the place where Captain Kealakai’s moopuna and I would go play. The water went far across the flats there. If I’m not mistaking, I think it went all the way behind the Barber’s Point beach area. The place was clean too, not like now. There were no kukus (thorns), and used to have plenty manu. We’d go swim in the ponds back there, it was pretty deep, about two feet, and the birds were all around. There were koloa (native ducks) and aeo (native stilts), and people don’t believe this, but there were also iwa. I remember that when they were nesting, I would see their red chests puff out. It seems like when there were storms out on the ocean, we’d see them come into the shore, but they’re not around anymore. The wet land would get bigger when there was a lot of rain, and we had so much fun in there, but now the water has nearly all dried up. They even used to grow wet-land taro in the field behind the elementary school area when I was young.

KM: Do you remember if people made salt out in the project area, maybe by the ponds, or along the shore? Or was it pretty much out at Puuloa?

AE: Well, the big salt making area had been at Puuloa, and some salt was still being made in the ponds there. I do remember that when we’d go fishing, we, and other families would gather salt from the Keoneula area. The paakai was made in the natural kaheka (salt bowls) along the shore there.

KM: Are there any other kupuna, or other old-timers that you could recommend for me to try and speak with about this land?

AE: I am one of the few older people still around. But as I mentioned to you before, Sister Parish (Ms. Thelma Parish) is a good friend of mine. She’s a descendant of the Dowsett family, and is very knowledgeable about the area. I tried to call her last week to see if she could join us in the meeting today, but she’s been away. The Mitsuyasu family are old time residents, they had the first store out here, and someone of them may have some information that could be useful. Also, Ted Farm is very knowledgeable about the marine and fishing resources. I’ll try to find out if there is anyone else that might be around, and I’ll also keep trying to contact Sister Parish.

KM: Would you be interested contributing some of your manao and recommendations to the development of the preservation plan to protect and interpret the cultural sites in the Haseko property?

AE: I am very interested in participating in the preservation plan. I feel that I need to because this is my home, and it is important to care for our cultural resources.

Kupuna Arline Eaton was born in Honolulu in 1927. Shortly after birth, she was taken by her kupuna, Kaniela and Malia Kealoha, to be raised in the Keahi vicinity of Puuloa, near the entrance of Ke Awalau o Puuloa (Pearl Harbor). Her kupuna had lived in the Puuloa-Honouliuli area for years, and from them, she learned about the land, storied places, practices and the importance of respecting the akua and aina.

Kupuna Eaton is also tied to the Lanai families who helped raise Kepa Maly, and they have known one another for many years. She has participated in a number of oral history interviews with Maly, participated in the 1997 interview conducted by Maly with Sister Thelma Parish. Both kupuna were known to one another since childhood, though Sister Parish was the older of the two. Together, their stories confirm and share rich facets of history for the Ewa District.

This interview with Kupuna Eaton was conducted as part of a larger Traditional Cultural Properties Study for the larger Ewa District, but brings important traditional knowledge of Honouliuli, and shares native values for keeping history alive. Kuuwainani Eaton, moopuna of Kupuna Eaton, kindly assisted with the review and release of the oral history transcript. The interview was kindly released for public access on October 21, 2011.

The following is a summary of several topics that were discussed with Kupuna Eaton:

•  Families lived through the practice of kuapo—fish, limu, and salt from the sea; taro and other vegetable crops from the land. Fishers and farmers exchange the products of their labor as sustained by the natural resources around them.
•  Kupuna were careful when discussing certain traditions and beliefs.  They were particularly cautious about disclosing the locations of resource gathering/collection sites for fear that others might hana ino the resources.
•  It was the practice of the kupuna to take only what was needed, and leave the rest for another time. When more was taken from the ocean than needed, the practice of was engaged in. Things were never wasted.
•  It is important to speak the proper place names of the land. Don’t change the names. The land will live when the history of the land is passed on and respected.
•  The shark goddess Kaahupahau, was still known during Kupuna Eaton’s childhood. Her elders took her to see Kaahupahau, and visit noted places of the shark goddess’s family.
•  Kupuna Eaton believes that it is best to leave ilina in place. If for some reason, this cannot happen, the families of the land should be involved in the decision-making process, and the reinternment should take place in an area close to the place of origin. They were placed in their ilina for a reason, and should be allowed to continue their journey in peace.
•  Kupuna were usually buried on the aina where they came from, and they in turn guarded their descendants that followed on the aina.
•  The land is still sacred, even if sites have been altered or removed. The land remains important and is a part of the history of the Hawaiian people.

Interviewee Arline Wainaha Puulei Brede-Eaton
Interviewers Kepa Maly and Onaona Pomroy Maly
Date August 23, 2011

KM: [Provides Kupuna with background of the traditional cultural properties study; packet of maps; and oral history program.]

So, how can we ensure that the knowledge of places is passed on to future generations? Is it important that we continued to speak place names of the land? So may I just start… we’ll mahaoi a little bit… please share with us your full name, date of birth, and how you came to be familiar with Ewa and Puuloa.

AE: Well, I was born at a luau. My mama, my biological mama came from Lanai, and they were invited to a luau, the Makini side. It was for their first child. The party was going to be at Kapalama, Oahu. So my Tutu papa, my mama’s father, who was the skipper of a boat belong to the Robinson Gay family that owned Lanai brought mama and my three aunties over. Aunty Manoa, Aunty Mahoe, and Aunty Hannah. So all four of them came to 1033 Morris Lane in Kapalama. And while the party was going on mama felt uncomfortable, so she asked my aunty and them, “let’s go in the house.” And low and behold, hanau ia ka pepe, seven and one half pounds, a baby girl, and that was me.

KM: Ae.

AE: So I understand that they cleaned me up, everything, and my Aunty, Jenny Kalehua Brede… she was a Douglas from Hawaii. She married William Elia Brede. They were at the luau. And evidently, somewhere along the way, she had asked mama for the pepe. Hawaiian style is you never say no, especially if you are related. So she was there, and it was her that cleaned me, wrapped me up, and took me home to 1508 Kalihi Road. And I understand that I kept crying. And after a day or two… See that was on Saturday, and by Sunday, she said to my uncle — at that time they are aunty and uncle — “We better go down to Puuloa, to tutu’s place.” Because he [Kaniela Kealoha] was a Kahuna Pule [Reverend]. So that’s how I got down in that area, and they left me there. I stayed there until it was time for me to go to kula. I’d go back and forth. But all my early part of my years, I was there.

KM:  Yes. So Kupuna, your full name?

AE:  Arline Wainaha Kuuleialoha Nakihei Brede Eaton.

KM:  Ae. And so this luau… When was your birth date?

AE:  November 11, 1927.

KM: Hmm, you are so beautiful. So, do you recall hearing how you were brought out here to Pu‘uloa, horse, canoe, train?

AE: The Brede ohana was pretty well off. They had a kaa, so they drove all the way into the area. No more roads, so you just had to go around, and I don’t know, that’s what they said; and came all the way down to tutu’s place. Because once I got there, I realized when I got older, they didn’t even have a kaa. Tutu papa would have a canoe, a two-man canoe, and that’s how he went around. And I would go with him.

KM:  From Puuloa?

AE:  Yes.

KM: You folks lived… I’m going to pull out a map here [opening Registered Map No. 1639]. You lived near the ocean? Is that correct?

AE:  Yes.

KM: So this is an 1873 map of Puuloa. We’re down here by Kapakule, Iroquois Point.

AE:  Uh-hmm.

KM: Here’s Puuloa, the houses. And you said the church was nearby too?

AE: Yes. Oh, here’s the windmill. So it was there.

KM:  Tutu papa had his canoe and you folks would go holoholo out here?

AE: Yes. The reason for that is he didn’t have a kaa, he was a fisherman. And over here, we didn’t have that much water, so because of that, he would go into Laulaunui, all the way up there, and trade.

KM: So all the way in here? Ahh, had taro people up here, yes?

AE: Yes. That’s how they did it. Not that we didn’t have. We had dryland taro, but we shared. We would share with them, that’s how I understood it.

KM:  Ae. So poe lawaia would gather from the ocean and paakai, fish, limu like that?

AE:  Yes. And then they take it up there.

KM:  What kind of fish, you remember?

AE: Oh yes. They had kala, moi, manini, all the different kinds of fish.

KM: There were two fish in particular, which the area was famous for?

AE: The anae, yes.

KM:  They call the anae holo.

AE: Yes, yes.

KM: And there’s a story about…

AE:  The anae.

KM: Traveling?

AE:  From there, going around.

KM: Around the island?

AE: Yes. Tutu told me that. We would sit down, after pau, before going to moemoe. She would sit down and tell me stories. It wasn’t that kind like you hear, they talk about fairytales. It was true stories.

KM:  Yes, true. Even where you said up here at Laulaunui, there is a place where they called it Kapapapuhi?

AE: Yes, yes.

KM: And that famous in the story of the anae holo.

AE: Yes, that’s where it comes from. But tutu them, they don’t talk about that to other people [pauses]. Because some people they come, take everything, or else they leave the place lepo.

KM: Ae, hana ino.

AE: Yes, he doesn’t like that. If you do anything good, they are going to give you.

KM:  So if you malama?

AE: You malama. Malama ka aina, malama i ke kai.

KM:  Ae. So you take care of the land and the ocean?

AE:  Yes, they care for you. That’s why, I tell them, I ride with my tutu on Kaahupahau.

KM:  Oh, so you remember the stories of Kaahupahau?

AE: Oh yes. People think I’m crazy.

KM: So tutu still…?

AE: That thing is sharp, you know. But my Tutu mama put clothes for me, and I ride with tutu on her back. [taps the table, like the side of a canoe] They go and they tap like that [taps four times].

KM:  On the canoe?

AE: Yes, on the canoe. Then we go, I go right on top. Sit on top and we go all over.

KM: Because Kaahupahau is…?

AE: She’s the goddess.

KM:  The shark?

AE:  Yes, that’s what my tutu them say.

KM:  Still malama?

AE:  Still malama, take care of that.

KM:  Wow!

AE:  And I learned that. But like I say, when I tell people, they don’t believe me.

KM: But Kupuna, the story that you lived, that you are telling of your young life, we know that that tradition has been passed down over the generations.

AE:  That’s how.

KM:  To your tutu papa’s time and way before then.

AE:  Oh, yes, yes, way before. And like I said, there were only two of us. After that, there was Kealakai.

KM: Kealakai, and the moopuna would come with you?

AE:  Yes. They lived here too. But they were gone most of the time, him and the wife. She would teach hula. That’s why, that picture of me with the hula skirt.

KM:  Yes, yes.

AE:  That’s the reason why. Because she wanted me to learn how to [taps the table, like an ipu].

KM:  Ah, olapa.

AE: I used to think, I look funny in that. They make me dress up, and he had to wear pants too [smiling]. But we never mind. We would run around in only our panties, or run around with nothing… [recalls sneaking to go swimming at the beach with Kealakai]

KM: These are such important histories and traditions to pass down. You’ve mentioned some of the fish. You mentioned Kaahupahau. That still in your lifetime, she was an important presence on the aina.

AE:  Yes.

KM: And the ocean of Puuloa – Ke Awalau o Puuloa.

AE:  Yes.

KM:  Do you remember the saying, “Alahula Puuloa…”?

AE:  Yes [thinking], it’s in the mele, oh I forget the line.

KM:  “Alahula Puuloa, he alahele na Kaahupahau.”

AE: Yes.

KM: So you heard that as a young child?

AE:  Oh yes.

KM:  That’s one of the famous traditions of this place.

AE:  Yes.

KM:  Kaahupahau, and her brother Kahiuka.

AE:  Right.

KM:   Oh, and one other fish, the oio?

AE: Yes. There was so much before. There are so many stories for that. But see, I wasn’t the fisherman, it was Kealakai, Mekia, he was the one. But that fish was ono. It was only places that you go. Tutu would tell, “go here, go there.” Because you have to watch. The fish go to specific areas, and all the young ones, you don’t go over there. You would go to the other place where they were all grown up. And you don’t take any more than you need. We didn’t have ice box. You only take what you can eat. And if we have to, tutu would go out there, get. Then tutu would share.

KM:  Ae. Well you mention that practice, tutu would lawaia out here, and then he would kuapo?

AE:  Yes.

KM:  Exchange with the poe who would kanu…

AE:  Yes.

KM: Kalo and other things like that?

AE:  Yes.

KM: So in this area behind Kapapapuhi, the Honouliuli taro lands?

AE:  Yes. That’s where he would go way up there, up in that area.

KM: Speaking then of these place names, there are so many traditions of how places were given their names. Is it important to pass traditional place names down?

AE: Yes, especially if you know it. We need to pass it on. Because otherwise, they are going to give different names. It’s alright to have names, but they have to be the right names. Just like here, Iroquois.

KM: Is there a proper name here?

AE: Keahi. And you know what’s out there?

KM: What?

AE:  Kanuku. That’s out there [gesturing towards that opening of Puuloa].

KM: Kanuku is the entry, yeah?

AE:  Yes, coming into that. We’re not too far away from there. And that’s where I stayed, out there.

KM: Hmm.

AE: Right there where that entrance is coming in. And the thing is, even though we lived there, we moved on [gestures walking along the coast]. Tutu would have a hale over there. Because certain kinds of fish, you go over there.

KM: So seasonally you knew where to go?

AE: Yes. Nobody else lived in the area, but we have to keep it clean. You cannot go in there with your dirty feet. Everything has to be clean. They always had another hale on the side, and that one, you can sit down and eat. And even that has to be clean.

KM:  Sure, like hale kahumu, hale kuku?

AE:  Yes.

KM:  Where they would eat and prepare their food.

AE:  Yes.

KM:  So your hale moena would be separate where you would sleep?

AE:  Yes. And you never needed door. Before, never had all kind bugs until much later. We didn’t know what that was. We never had such a thing. Then they brought the pipi in. Sometimes they ask me why I don’t eat meat. I say, we only ate what was in the ocean. I didn’t die.

KM:  No.

AE:  Even water. When I go down into kula, I had a hard time. I had to take my own water from there. It was brackish.

KM:  Get flavor, yeah [chuckles]

AE: Yes. And then all of them teased me. [Describes going to school and old-style clothes made by her tutu, which she wore, while others had modern clothes.]

KM: So Kupuna, you have this wonderful experience as a child, growing up in this area here. And tutu would come into this section, West Loch, Laulaunui, the Honouliuli-Hoaeae section; did you folks travel to other places? And do you remember hearing stories… What they are planning is to build this rail which will go through various places. Much of it used to be kuleana, and now everything is all changed.

AE: Yes, that’s right.

KM: So you mentioned once, the place names, as an example, Kalauao.

AE:  Yes.

KM: You said you knew it by another name.

AE: Oh, we spoke about it before. I think it’s written in a book, but you have to go look back. And that’s how I knew that name, during that time. Not Kalauao. It’s a river or a stream that came down.

KM: It is interesting. And on these maps that I’m leaving with you, they go back far, and they show traditional ahupuaa boundaries, which run from the kai for the lawaia, all the way the way to the piko of the mountain.

AE:  Yes.

KM: So they have the large names, and then there are the small names like Kaonohi, Paaiau or Waipahu, which is a small section in Waikele, yeah?

AE:  Yes. Well, I still say that the area now called Waipahu was named by the plantation manager. That’s what my tutu them said. That’s why I keep saying, “It isn’t Waipahu. It’s Waikele.”

KM:  Yes, the ahupuaa.

AE:  That’s what it is, that area. Well, if they want to name that little area. But now…

KM: Yes, they gave the whole name. Kupuna, when we go through the oldest, oldest moolelo and land records, we actually see that Waipahu is a small spring…

AE:  Yes, that’s what it is.

KM: So when the plantation came in, they did just what your Tutu papa said, they took that name. The mill was just a little above there. So they called the whole thing Waipahu.

AE: Yes, that’s right.

KM: So, is it important to speak the names of places?

AE: Yes. That’s why I say Waikele, and Waipahu is just that place. And Kaahupahau used to go in that area. I remember that. Because we would go, my tutu and I would go in that area, go and see. And you see her swimming around there.

KM:  Mano? This big mano?

AE: Oh yes. Yes, that’s why I was telling you. I would get on with my tutu. But people don’t believe me.

KM: Well, that’s okay. Your moolelo is consistent with stories that have been handed down over the generations. And not only here, but other places too… All these stories.

AE:  Yes, and it’s beautiful. I don’t think people understand that, the history.

KM: Yes. Because people don’t understand the history and it is so important to pass it on [pauses]; if this rail project goes through, would a recommendation be to — Take the history from each of these lands and somehow include it into the stories that are being told. Like, they are going to have stations for where the train is going to stop.

AE:  Yes.

KM: Should they put, like our little museum on Lanai, should they put interpretive things that tell you the stories of the land and people?

AE:  Yes.

KM: Maybe even in Hawaiian and English?

AE: Yes, yes.

KM: Like at Waimalu and the story of Maihea and his son who rode the whale from Puuloa.

AE: Maihea, yes. I like that because that way that area will live, it will still be there. It’s not something, that’s what it was before and nobody knows anything about it. Because as it is now, if you look around, everything we have is not ours.

KM:   Ae, nalowale.

AE: Yes. So there we go. So some say, “Why do you tell them everything?” I say if we don’t do it, they going wipe everything out. We tell so that our children will know. So when people come over here, they know what that area is [tapping the table for emphasis].

KM:  So the time for huna is kind pau, yeah?

AE: Yes. Otherwise it will be gone. Then they tell me, “Oh, you getting paid by Haseko.” I said “I don’t get paid by them… ” I fight them all the time. But then God told me, in my prayer, “Get over there. Get over there and find out how you can help.”

KM:  Ae, when you Kokua…

AE: It’s going to be good.

KM:  Yes. So Kupuna, these place names like Waipio, Waikele, Waiawa…

AE:  Waimano.

KM: Yes, and Manana.

AE: See, like Manana, they call that Pearl City. Different. I ask why? Why did they have to give other names like that? It has a name; there is a reason why each one was given. And I am sure that if Aunty Lahilahi [Webb] was living, she would really raise the roof.

KM:  Ae. Well, you will love the moolelo that we are compiling. [Discusses nature of research and collection of Hawaiian records into the study.]

AE: There is a reason for those names. Like go over there to the elementary school, and do a little presentation about the area, and they wanted me to sit down and write all that. So I don’t mind telling them about all that. They should know what their area is about.

KM:  Each place name tells a story.

AE:  Yes.

KM: Is it true that place names were given for a reason?

AE: Yes, they are. Why do they give that name? Like they said, Puuloa. It doesn’t have a hill or anything. But I said “no, doesn’t mean because it’s a hill.” There is a reason for that. Why it comes like that. All the waters come, and there is a reason for it going around.

KM:  Ae, Waiau.

AE: Yes, the swirling waters. Each one has a name. Every single one has a name, and why. The swirling waters, the curving waters, you know.

KM:  Yes. Waipio, Waimano, Waimalu.

AE: Yes, every single one. And I believe that if you really knew anything about it, you would know over there, you would see it. And that’s why you would have all the oysters in that area.

KM:  Ae, the pipi, nahawele, okupe.

AE: Yes, the pipi, good kind. [speaking softly and smiling] I used to go over there, carry the basket over there that tutu them had. But it doesn’t mean anything to anybody else. To me it does. [chuckles] I never looked at what was in there [the little pearls], for me it was what was in there to eat. That’s what I liked, ono!

KM: Hmm. Well, the example of the story with the pipi like that, and they said that you had to “hamau ka leo.”

AE:  Yes.

KM:  You couldn’t talk when you go.

AE: And it’s true. Even when tutu went out, even to go fishing, aole. [gestures, finger to her lips] Hamau. And that’s how you see it coming up, it’s quiet. And it makes sense. You make big noise; they’re all going to disappear. This way [quiet] they’re all coming out, and you choose.

KM: So you take the one you need and leave the rest.

AE:  Yes.

KM: And they say that there was a goddess, a moo?

AE:  Yes.

KM:  Kanekuaana?

AE:  Yes.

KM: And she controlled that.

AE: Yes. She watched, watched over that.

KM: So amazing. This nice old map shows Mokuumeume, even with some of the planted fields, because people lived out here.

AE: Oh yes, had people out here. [looking at map depicting Mokuumeume] I used to like going over here. Because on this particular island, Paahana, the ohana lived in this area.

KM: Paahana?

AE: Yes, you've heard of her. The one from the song.

KM: Yes, oh the one the song is about?

AE:  Yes.

KM:  What’s the song, you remember?

AE:  [thinking] Oh, you sing it for me.

KM:  [singing] He mele keia no Paahana, kaikamahine, noho kuahiwi…

AE:  Yes, yes, that’s it. Now you sing that, I’m going to cry. I cannot help; it reminds me… that’s one of the places that we knew of. My tutu always said, “You go there, malama, take care.” Like what Tutu mama said, what they did to her, that’s not right.

KM:  Yes. And her name lives on in the song by speaking it, and the others are forgotten.

AE:  Yes. That’s right, still lives on. But you know, if I talk to anybody else, it doesn’t mean anything to them. But I like it, I go to certain places, I sing. And my moopuna, tutu sing that again.

KM:  So relative to these aina of the Ewa District, did you ever hear of any heiau around the bays that you remember? And I know that they may not have always spoken about those things. But do you remember?

AE:  I do, but I’ve never really talked about it, because people don’t believe.  No matter what I tell them, so I say, “no use.” They’re not interested in that. That’s why when they have this fellow that talks and goes to the board [asks that his name not be used in the transcript]; he’s telling this, this and that, all that kind. But I don’t say anything. As long as he doesn’t go fool around with my tutu them.

KM:  Yes.

AE:  As long as he doesn’t, I’m not saying a word. If he wants to go, go ahead. But I know different people that were buried in Ewa.

KM:  Well, speaking of that, what are your thoughts about what happens if they are digging the rail and they find iwi? What should happen?

AE:  Well to me, I’m thinking, I know that when the dig up, they are going to find. There was a reason for it being put there.

KM:  Since there was a reason for them being buried there, is that a reason to leave them alone? To leave them in place?

AE: If they could do it, I would say yes. I know it’s not easy, because how they going to work that rail? So something has to be done.

KM: To honor or to respect?

AE:  Yes, to respect them. Have something to honor them.

KM:  A marker or something to indicate…?

AE:  So if they take that iwi, give them a place where they can… Because they’ve been there, way before this thing ever came up.

KM: So Kupuna, e kala mai. Should they be…? If ohana come together and agree, “Okay let’s gather them respectfully," should they put near where they came from or move them down to “Lala land” somewhere else?

AE:  If there is a way where they could be within that area, there’s a reason for it.

KM: So keep them close to where they belong?

AE:  Many of them are buried in those areas because that’s where they’re from.

KM: Yes.

AE:  And it was like they guarded that area for their ohana.

KM: So even though they are dead, they are not gone?

AE:  That’s right.

KM: So their spirit, their aloha for family remains on the land?

AE:  Yes.

KM:  And they protect or watch out for their…

AE:  Family.

KM:  The generations.

AE:  That’s why in this area, they talk about they hear spirits and all kinds of stuff. Maybe they do. I don’t hear it, but in this school, even them, they tell. I pule.

KM:  Yes. This is your ohana.

AE:  That’s why.

KM:  So that also being said, that whole connection to Leilono at Aliamanu and Kapukaki, all the way to Honouliuli, the leaping place of the spirits.

AE:  That’s right.

KM: This was a place of spirits.

AE:  I know.

KM: And if you hana ino them, what?

AE: Pilikia. I’ve seen some, and they tell me when you hana ino like that, you going be like that. Sometimes they get hooio, you cannot be like that, because they are there. But they are the spirits; they probably had no place to go, so that’s where they came.

KM:  Yes, some, they auwana out at Kaupea, Kanehili.

AE: Yes. That’s why I say, “If you don’t hana ino them, they’re good.” But you have to know how. You have to pray, and you talk to them.

KM:  Tutu folks said mihi, mihi aku, mihi mai.

AE: Yes, that’s how. And that’s what I did with my kula [school]. In the beginning they were scared. But you cannot do that. If you want, they can help. I said, “I have no problem, it’s you folks.” Before, they hear the door slam, anything. But now, no more. And we don’t say anything to the new people. They just go merrily along with us. But all of these things are very important.

Oh, this map is wonderful [looking at Register Map No. 1639].

KM: Quite beautiful, 1873, of the Puuloa region. Entrance of the harbor, Kanuku, and where your tutu lived. And across is Halawa. Do you remember Water Town?

AE:  Oh yes, by that… what do the call that military base over there?

KM: Hickam?

AE: Hickam, that’s where Water Town was, as they called it.

KM: Do you remember hearing why Water Town was built?

AE:  [thinking] During that period of time, it didn’t come until… You know Moanalua?

KM: Yes.

AE: There was an overflow, so all people in that area. So they had to move down. How I know is because my dad and he [Damon] were good friends. That’s why, even living in Kalihi, I wonder how we lived in that place, because it’s all Kamehameha lands. Below and above.

KM: [reviews Honolulu region place names] Many of the place names refer to notable people of earlier times.

AE: You write a book about those types of things.

KM: Well, it’s all from talking with kupuna, like you, and when we sat down and spoke with Sister Parish.

AE:  Yes.

KM: And then going through the old native newspapers like that. Your kupuna were such prolific writers. And they were writing because they wanted the history remembered.

AE: Yes, that’s what it was. That’s what they wanted. They wanted people to know, it’s our land. Even though you may have taken it away from us, we still know the area.

KM:  So tutu, as you said, even though it has been taken away, it is still your land.

AE:  Yes.

KM:  It is your kupuna.

AE:  Yes.

KM: So even if the physical remains of the heiau are gone, is the place still important?

AE:  I look at it that way. A good example is, I just went out with this girl. She was looking at the place where Kapolei is. On the right hand they have the place where the kupuna can go. They have a nice place over there. A community center. It’s across the street, so this girl took me there, she wanted to know about that area. So I was telling here from the ocean, all the way up to where we were. I said, “there was a heiau right here.” And the only reason why I know that is because we would have to go down there. Mekia and I. When we would go down to my auntie’s place.

KM:  That was by Kualakai?

AE: Yes, the Kualakai area, because we were going to Kalaeloa. So there was a heiau over there. And that’s where, actually before, they were going fishing, and they had an ahu out there. And I remember that. And Mekia would say, “we go over there, go swim.” I would say “no, tutu said we’re not supposed to go over there.” He’d say, “what tutu?’ “The one over there at Kalaeloa,” Naauao. That’s the one married to Fred Robins. So he tells me “okay.” But when I turn around a look, he’s gone, going over there, and he waves at me, from where the heiau is. Had ahu in that area. But it was interesting. Even though they had that ahu over there, where the girl took me, I said, “You come right up to this area here, the heiau comes all the way.”

KM:  So at Puu o Kapolei, had the heiau there looking down to the ocean?

AE: Yes, yes, that’s right. That’s what I was trying to tell her. That’s what I remembered. I don’t know if anybody else knows about that, because it’s all empty.

KM: Yes, when the military took over, and the plantation above cleared everything, so much was lost. Even when they began quarrying at Puu o Kapolei, they destroyed part of the heiau.

AE:  Yes. All of that all went.

KM:  They don’t think.

AE:  They don’t.

KM:  So tutu, even if we don’t see the physical remains there is still importance on the land?

AE:  Oh yes.

KM: Do you remember when we were sitting with Sister Parish also, one of the very interesting things that she shared was the story about the priest Ka‘opulupulu?

AE:  Oh yes.

KM: And his son, Kahulupue.

AE:  That was true you know.

KM:  And how Kahahana, the king…

AE:  Yes.

KM: The father, Kaopulupulu ran here to Puuloa into the ocean.

AE:  That’s right.

KM:  And what happened?

AE:  You remember her talking to you about that time?

KM: Yes.

AE:  When she was talking about that, I was surprised that she even told, shared it with other people.

KM:  Yes.

AE:  Afterwards I asked her, “How do you know all of this?” She just said, “Because I know, tutu told me.” And she said, “I believe in it.”

KM:  I remember that her tutu, Mii, out Kualoa side was a kahuna.

AE:  Yes, and that’s who it was.

KM:  [Reviews story of Kahekili, Kahahana, Kaopulupulu and Kahulupue and the prophecy of Puuloa.]

AE:  That’s why Kahahana got killed.

KM:  That’s right, he got killed here at Kalauao by the place, Kukiiahu.

AE:  Kukiiahu. But I cannot talk to other people, because they do not know, yeah.

OM/KM:  Yes.

AE:  And now you talk about it, it brings back memories. In the beginning, I have to think about what you are talking about. But now I know. Sister Parish and I would sit down, and I’ve got her paper, you know.

KM:  I’m so glad that you got them. She was working so hard because she wanted to publish her book, but she didn’t live long enough. So it is very important that it not be lost. It was her passion.

AE:  Yes. And she made sit there by the hours, reading… Beautiful.

KM:  Yes, and I thought you would enjoy some of these different maps. They are good for some of the work that you do with the haumana.

AE:  Yes.

AE/KM:  [Discusses genealogical background; work at the Kauhale preservation site on the shore of Honouliuli; and her own kupuna buried at Kawaiahao. Looking through photos and talking story.]

Recording oral history interviews is an important part of the historical review process. The experiences conveyed through interviews are personal; also, the narratives are rich and more animated than those that may be typically found in reports that are purely academic or archival in nature—the personal narratives tend to present modern audiences with descriptions of cultural values, practices, and transitions in the landscape. Thus, through the process of conducting oral history interviews, things are learned that are often overlooked in other forms of documentation. Interviews also help demonstrate how certain knowledge is handed down through time, from generation to generation. Of course, with the passing of time, knowledge and personal recollections undergo changes. Sometimes, that which was once important is forgotten, assigned a lesser value, or lost because of alterations to the landscape, economic pressures, and loss of access. Today, when individuals—particularly those from outside the culture which originally assigned the cultural values to places, practices, and customs—evaluate things such as cultural properties, resources, practices, and history, their importance is often diminished. Thus, oral historical narratives provide both present and future generations with an opportunity to understand the relationship shared between people and their natural-cultural environment.

Through oral history interviews, it is also evident that with the passing of kupuna and elder kamaaina generations, facets of history and knowledge of place are sometimes lost. Readers are asked to keep in mind that while this component of the study records various facets of cultural and historical knowledge of land and resources in Honouliuli Ahupuaa, the documentation is incomplete. In the process of conducting oral history interviews, it is impossible to record all the knowledge or information that the interviewees possess. Thus, the oral history narratives provide readers with glimpses into the stories being told and of the lives of the interview participants as related to the landscape in which they live, work, and play.

As would be expected, participants in oral history interviews sometimes have different recollections of history, or for the same location or events of a particular period. There are a number of reasons that differences are recorded in oral history interviews, among them are that:

•  Recollections result from varying values assigned to an area or occurrences during an interviewee’s formative years.
•  They reflect localized or familial interpretations of the particular history being conveyed.
•  With the passing of many years, sometimes that which was heard from elders during one’s childhood 60 or more years ago, may transform into that which the interviewee recalls having actually experienced.
•  In some cases it can be the result of the introduction of information into traditions that is of more recent historical origin.
•  Some aspects of an interviewee’s recollections may also be shaped by a broader world view. In the face of continual change to one’s cultural and natural landscapes, there can evolve a sense of urgency in caring for what has been, and history might be embellished.

When based in traditional knowledge, diversity in the histories shared should be seen as something that will enhance interpretation, preservation, and long-term management programs for the lands of Honouliuli. Noticeable differences in histories being recorded may help direct new paths of research and questions which may be answered through further research, or in some cases, pose questions which may never be answered.

In the broader context of the narratives shared through the oral history interviews, it will be seen that there are consistent themes. These themes include, but are not limited to:

•  Care for the land, water, and ocean resources;
•  Honor the natural/cultural history of the aina and kupuna.
•  Respect ilina and cultural sites.
•  Promote maintenance and integration of cultural/natural resources and practices into project design.
•  Integrate the history of place and people into programs that pass that information on to present and future generations through educational/interpretive activities.

Two of the oral history interviews were conducted by Leimomi Morgan, descendant of an ohana with generational ties to Honouliuli Ahupuaa. The interviewees were provided with the following introduction to the study undertaking, and overview of the types of questions that would be asked:

Honouliuli – Hoakalei Oral History/Consultation Study

Aloha – Thank you for agreeing to participate in the Honouliuli Oral History Consultation Study being conducted as part of the Haseko (Ewa), Inc. — Hoakalei Master Plan Update Environ-mental Impact Statement (please see project overview on pages 2–3). While conducting the interview, we hope to record information from people who know the moolelo (history) of the land and natural/cultural resources. The information gained from these interviews will be used to identify resources in or near the project area and help in determining how they may be affected by the project.

With your permission, the interview will be recorded. The recording will be transcribed and a draft transcript, along with the recording will be returned to you for review, corrections and/or additions. If the interview is not recorded, but notes taken, those notes will be developed in an effort to capture key points shared, and returned to you for your approval. When you are satisfied with the transcript (recorded or expanded notes), we would like your permission to incorporate the transcript into the documentary study for the Honouliuli project area. When the study is completed a full copy of the report, including historical background and oral history/consultation interviews will be given to you for your family record.

To begin the interview we would like to establish a background section on your personal history and experiences – how you came to possess the knowledge you share.

•  Interviewees Name:
•  Interview Date:
•  Location:
•  When were you born?
•  Where were you born?
•  Are you affiliated with a Native Organization or family group? (name):
•  Parents?
•  Grew up where? Also lived at?
•  Where did you live? Share with us recollections of elder family members and extended family that influenced your life and provided you with knowledge of place and practice?
•  Family background—grandparents, hānai etc.; generations of family residency in area… (time period)?
•  Kinds of information learned/activities and practices participated in and how learned…?
•  Sites and locations (e.g., heiau, pa ilina, kahua hale, ma la ai, ala hele, and koa etc.); how learned, and thoughts on care and preservation…
•  Do you have knowledge of wahi pana — places of religious and cultural significance in or near the project area?
•  Where are these places located in relation to the proposed project (see maps)? How did you learn about these places?
•  Are these places important to the you, your ohana, the larger community (or all three)?
•  What makes these places important in terms of traditional practices or beliefs?
•  How would you define their boundaries?
•  Will these places or their use be affected by the project? If so, how might they be affected, and what steps might be taken to minimize impacts on the sites?
•  Have these places been affected by modern development, and is it relevant to what makes them important?


•  Did you/your family cultivate the land? Describe methods of planting and types of plants? Use of particular plants and other natural resources; customs observed when collecting or caring for such resources; and how/when accessed?
•  Discussion of water flow and weather patterns.
•  Types of fishing practices:  localities of fishing grounds or limu collection areas; and changes in fisheries?
•  Historic land use practices, fishing activities?
•  Thoughts on the care of cultural and natural resources…?
•  May information about these places be shared, or should it be protected from public release?

Project Overview

Haseko is seeking a zone change for a portion of its Hoakalei Project to accommodate an update to its project master plan. The existing zoning for this area was last modified on July 20, 2007 in anticipation of the existing basin being completed as a small boat marina. The lack of sustainable market demand in the foreseeable future for the boat slips and other marina facilities, together with ongoing and possible future legal challenges to governmental approvals for the marina entrance channel, make it impractical for Haseko to pursue development of a small boat marina for the foreseeable future. Accordingly, it is now requesting rezoning of the land surrounding the existing basin consistent with its use as a recreational lagoon that would have no direct connection to the ocean.

The updated master plan would not increase the total number of planned dwelling units or visitor accommodation units specified in Haseko’s Unilateral Agreement with the City. It is possible that there will be some adjustments to the proposed zoning boundaries that may affect the sizes and locations of individual zoning districts as a result of consultations with the City Department of Planning and Permitting (DPP). Anticipated permits that require environmental assessment compliant with HRS Chapter 343 include the zone change, and potentially a Special Management Area Use Permit and a Shoreline Setback Variance. Haseko will also seek a modification of the Special Management Area boundary in the area around the recreational lagoon, since it will not be connected directly to the ocean, as the boat marina would have been.

If these approvals are granted, Haseko will continue development of the same kinds of resort, residential, and commercial retail/office/restaurant uses that had previously been approved for the area. In addition, lighter industrial mixed uses will replace the more intensive waterfront industrial uses previously planned in connection with a marina development. By providing for these uses, the updated master plan for the area covered by this request will continue to create employment and business opportunities as envisioned when the zoning was originally granted. In addition, the plan includes a public swimming cove that would provide a protected swimming area; it also includes facilities that would collect and treat storm water runoff, minimizing the amount that flows into the proposed lagoon. The revised plan also includes pedestrian pathways and other amenities that were not included in the previous plan.

Haseko will continue to have primary responsibility for constructing the proposed facilities, including possible residential and/or resort units; commercial and lighter industrial-mixed use structures; infrastructure; public facilities and amenities such as the swimming cove, activity center, comfort station, parking lot, cultural center; and for further enhancing the existing Wetland Preservation Area.

Mahalo nui.

Leimomi Morgan
(808) 295.1911
Email: oleimomimo@gmail.com

Four additional interviews were previously recorded by Kepā and Onaona Maly. Three of the interviews were conducted with Kupuna Arline Wainaha Puulei Brede-Eaton and Sister Thelma Genevieve Parish, elder kamaaina of the Puuloa-Honouliuli, as a part of the process of developing the initial Hoakalei preservation plan in the 1990s. Aunty Arline and Sister Parish are two of the eldest, lifelong members of the Honouliuli-Puuloa area. These kupuna were sought out to elicit historical narratives, records of Hawaiian sites and practices, and recommendations regarding the Haseko development project. Kupuna Arline and Sister Parish were recommended as the most knowledgeable residents of the region. A fourth interview was conducted with members of the Shibuya-Dayanan family. All interviews provide information of time depth and attachment to place, and document personal experiences on the land and in the ocean. Through the generosity of the interviewees, were are also informed of changes in the environment during their lifetimes. 

We are deeply indebted to the interviewees and their ohana for their willingness to participate and share in the history of the land.

Mahalo nui no ka lokomaikai kau palena ole: Mark Ehukai Kahalekulu, Harry Alama, Jose Dayanan, Roxanne Marie Tagama, Barbara Shibuya, Mona Shibuya, Janice Trinidad, Arline Wainaha Kuuleialoha Nā kīhei Brede Eaton, and Thelma Genevieve Parish.